Permalancing: Full Time Freelancing with a Client



A growing trend for some companies is to hire freelancers for a full 40 hours (or occasionally more) per week. These freelancers have to show up to the office on time, handle whatever work is on the agenda, work on an indefinite basis and generally act like employees.

But they don’t get the actual benefits that go with being employed — not only don’t they get access to benefits, but they’re still responsible for paying taxes on their own. These freelancers who act like employees are known as ‘permalancers.’ While there are plenty of people willing to take on permalancing jobs, it’s rare that these jobs are good opportunities.

The Problem With Permalancing

Employers like permalancers because they keep human resources costs down and permalancers can be let go at the drop of the hat if a business needs to change direction. Permalancers get neither the freedoms of freelancing nor the benefits of full-time employment.

In some cases, a company may choose to provide certain benefits to permalancers or offer opportunities for a permalancer to become an employee after a certain period of time. But that sort of decision is no guarantee: in December, 2007, Viacom announced that permalancers and contract employees at MTV would lose the benefits and paid vacation days that the company had previously extended to them. The announcement resulted in a strike by the permalancers in the hot seat, which lead to a rollback of the changes on Viacom’s part for current permalancers at MTV. New permalancers still face problems, as well as any permalancer or contract employee at other companies owned by Viacom.

The Viacom situation stands out because permalancers were able to get some concessions: there was a big enough group, who happened to be pretty media savvy about getting coverage. But that’s not the typical results a permalancer may face. If you work for a smaller employer, it’s generally easiest for the employer to simply fire anyone who isn’t in line with the company’s policies — after all, permalancers rarely have recourse.

The IRS Issue

Technically, in most cases, asking individuals to permalance, rather than employing them, violates the IRS’ policies on who can be considered a contractor and who cannot. The IRS requires that contractors (including freelancers) must have the freedom to do work when they see fit, among other characteristics. When a freelancer works only for one client, it is not unheard of for the IRS to reclassify that freelancer as an employee and force the employer in question to pay back taxes and penalties.

But the number of companies employing these strategies are numerous and many of them are quite large. The IRS simply does not have time to examine each situation and take appropriate action. It is possible for a permalancer to take the situation to the IRS, by reporting an employer, but the odds of that resulting in a full-time job or even more freelance work from the company in question are very low.

Where That Leaves Permalancers

If you’re in a permalancing position that feels equitable to you, that’s great. But if you’ve wound up in a permalancing situation and you aren’t comfortable with it, perhaps it’s time to consider changing the situation. That may mean looking for freelance work away from the company that is in fact (if not on paper) your employer. It may also mean having a talk with that company and seeing if you can’t come to a more equitable arrangement. Those may not be ideal steps to take, especially if your concerned about your personal cash flow, but they are the main options facing freelancers.

With few exceptions, permalancing is a poor option for freelancers: it takes away our freedom and can even cause us some trouble during tax season. The best solution, at the end of the day, is to simply try to avoid it.

PG

Thursday Bram is a full-time freelance writer and the founder of EnhancedFreelance.com, a community for freelancers.



  1. PG Donna Vitan

    Pretty informative. Thanks for the article.

  2. PG Takingweb

    “permalancers”…is what exactely i am since i’ve started to work “as a freelance”. But in Italy if you need to work, if you wanna work with some (alls) companies, you have to accept this. It’s sad. Too much sad.

  3. Well Permalancers seem like they are losing the benefits of both sides.

    Nabeel

    1. PG Takingweb

      exactly!…

  4. PG rotationbias

    Ugh, this seems like a truly terrible way to work. These poor folks are being horribly exploited.

  5. PG Dan

    I’m not sure I agree that this sort of position should be completely avoided.

    Constantly chasing the next month-long contract or new client can be tiresome and financially worrisome at the best of times, whilst the security that a more permanent position can provide (even if just for a few months) can provide a welcome relief from the agency chasing and interviews.

    During these times I have felt much more relaxed and able to concentrate more on marketing and personal projects in my spare time, find more time to blog, and still take on extra work from various other clients, even if it meant spending most evenings and weekends working to get these out the door.

    How ‘free’ you are will ultimately depend on your relationship with these employers – mine never saw a problem with me going to meet or doing a quick amend (within reason) for another client during my day. Plus, I now get regular freelance design and web site projects from these clients either on site or at home because they know and trust me to fulfill the work.

    I agree that we won’t see the benefits of a full time employee, but didn’t we forfeit that right to moan about that when we decided to work for ourselves? If you’re ‘permalancing’ you should be earning a fair amount more than the full-timer in the seat next to you anyway.

  6. PG Kyee

    I’m a permalancer for a great company who respect my needs fully and pay me incredibly well. The opportunities are out there, you just have to find the right client and get to know them very well before you sign anything.

    I also work from home (the company is in the US, I’m in the UK) contracted to 40 hours per week but I very rarely need to work that many, and the client is happy as long as I complete all given tasks within that week and I can work any time of the day I like. It feels just like freelancing if I’m honest.

    Stick your thumbs up to the good clients who take care of their permalancers!

    1. PG grafikdetail

      I think in your case its different from what the article is about. The main thing is you work from home. Here in the states employers want to hire freelancers as contractors but only if you will work at their office as an employee without any benefits, protection, or taxes being paid by them.

    2. PG Shari K.

      I respectfully disagree with grafikdetail. :) And the smiley is to show I’m saying this in a friendly way only, not an unpleasant way. I just wanted to clear up some possibly misleading info.

      What he/she said about how companies treat freelancers/contractors is not necessarily accurate of most company-freelancer relationships. While I agree it IS true sometimes, grafikdetail makes it sound like it’s true ALWAYS. Maybe just a little qualifier would’ve helped clear this up. Such as “employers often want to hire freelancers as contractors….” or “employers frequently hire freelancers as contractors….” Because in truth, I’ve been a freelance copy editor &/or proofreader for several years, and I’ve always worked from home. And the majority of my freelancer/contractor friends here in the U.S. also work solely from their homes. (And not all of them are in media-type jobs like mine. Many have other positions completely).

      Incidentally, I would LOVE to work in an office, even if I didn’t get any benefits, because I’m extremely extroverted and I badly miss the opportunity to interact with coworkers. :( I used to work in an office before getting laid off. Now I work from home and I find it very isolating. Yes, I’m very grateful to be earning money, and the flexibility is awesome, but as a super-social people-person, I get depressed sometimes that I can’t do my work with other people.

      Cheers,
      Shari in California

  7. It’s not all bad. Actually, depending on the situation, it can be a great role to find yourself in. Here are some reasons why permalancing isn’t all doom and gloom:

    • Higher rate of pay on hourly or daily basis. To “replace” those benefits, permalancers will often earn a higher wage than their full-time counterpart. In some cases, this can be up to double the salary of a similar staff employee. If you’re responsible about your taxes and savings, this can be money in the bank.

    • Consistency. Permalancing eliminates the elements that many freelancers hate most: finding new clients, sending estimates, chasing invoices, and the general hustle. Predictability can be welcomed, especially in hard economic times.

    • Ability to leave. No one likes explaining in an interview why you left a job (especially after only a few months) but if you can say “I was a freelancer” it’s a free pass to move around.

    • Job search without guilt. As a permalancer, you can relax slightly while you look for a more fruitful situation or a full-time role. If you find something, go ahead and move over without guilt. They don’t own you; there is no permanent record for freelancers.

    • Stay below the politics. Permalancers are often excluded from the internal politics of an organisation. This can be a tremendous amount of stress off the shoulders of said permalancer, including less overtime and less time in meetings.

    • Moonlighting. Assuming you still have some energy left, you can have private clients after hours and on weekends. Some companies don’t their staff moonlight.

    • If you have benefits from your parents or spouse, the lack of benefits is a non-issue. Pocket the difference.

    So in conclusion, Permalancing isn’t all bad. Depending on the situation, it can be very welcomed. Having been faced with such patchy freelance work, I would welcome permalance — and am currently working towards such a situation (3 days a week at the moment but moreless permalance).

    But yes, the case you described for Viacom/MTV seems rather gruesome.

    1. PG jpoly4

      I totally agree. I have done the permalance thing and loved it. I didn’t have to work the crazy hours some of the employees felt obligated to work. I also made much more than I would have if I was staff.

      As far as benefits, I health benefits from my spouse and as a self employed individual I started my own 401k that allows me to put away much more money than most 401ks.

    2. PG Maarten

      I totally agree. Especially with “stay below the politics”. My fulltime counterparts (who are employed) need to waste a lot of time to meet and greet the right people inside the company, to seek opportunities.

      In my role (as a permalancer) I consult companies about redesigning their business. In this role it is very important to be an objective partner. My advices are always considered to be honest, because the outcomes do not serve any personal motives.

      Even though my style of consulting is friendly, I don’t have to worry that a bold comment to some important manager can harm my career. I like to have these equal and trustg-based relationships with managers, who don’t have any power over me.

  8. PG Nic Rosental

    It’s the first time I heard of this term. At first I thought it meant working as a freelancer (a real freelancer) for just one client, which in itself grants a post.
    I was able to strike a balance with one “anchor” client that keeps me busy most of the time, but also allows me to work on other clients and projects, and do it all from the place of my choosing.

  9. PG tiredbees

    I so glad to be in full-time employment and not “Permalancing” anymore!

    Don’t get me wrong “Permalancing” was the best way of getting the wide range of intensive experience that a small digital agency can offer as a graduate.

    I went from basic HTML skills, to being the studio expert in all things digital at my current job in just under a year.

    The old saying you can’t get a job without experience and you can’t get experience without a job!

  10. PG Razil

    Hmm… good article, no doubt.

    However, this permalancing defeat the purpose of freelancing isn’t it. It sounds more like a contract job or a temporary position.

    1. PG Takingweb

      “It sounds more like a contract job or a temporary position.”
      yes is it!..in Italy it’s exactly so!

  11. PG Jordan Walker

    I have mixed feelings about this, maybe part time but full time is questionable.

  12. PG Gabby Hon

    You paint a far too grim portrait of ‘permalancing’ as well as being a little inaccurate. The ‘permalance’ controversy actually originated with Microsoft and really rotates around whether you are paid via W-2 (and usually coming in under a staffing agency) or via 1099.

    Here’s some brief yet solid background: http://www.orlowskywilson.com/articles/hiring-freelancers.asp

    I am a 1099-only freelancer in Chicago and usually work on-site at various interactive agencies, but do have the freedom to work at home, set my own hours, determine the method/style of work, etc. My contracts last anywhere between 2-5 months on average.

  13. PG Chris O'Connor

    My dayjob is “permalancing” as a web designer. I’ve been doing it for almost 4 years now.

    1. If you commute every day, you can’t write off your mileage. You can’t write off meals while working, etc.

    2. Benefits are worth it. I don’t get benefits. No insurance or anything. To buy these on your own, you get the flexibility of choosing what you want which is awesome since most employers opt for really shitty insurance, but you’re going to pay for it, and it isn’t cheap. Personally, I just opt for catastrophic insurance. I have to take very good care of myself.

    3. You better get paid way more than usual to pay for the lack of benefits, and no taxes are taken out of checks. Be smart with this. You have to pay the IRS. It will catch up to you if you don’t. If you’re getting the same wage as an employee with benefits is getting, you need to leave.

    4. Don’t work 40 hours every week. It will become expected of you. If you are “permalancing” and not doing work on the side, I recommend finding a “real” job. However, if you’re doing side work, the flexibility is worth the lack of benefits in my opinion. I can leave for lunch, and not come back if I feel like working on something else.

    5. If you are working full time, and have an office, etc… You may also lose your job when your “permaclient” finds out they have to pay back taxes on you. You’re an employee in the eyes of the IRS in most cases. The employer does not like to learn that they weren’t as clever as they thought.

    6. A lot of places wanting to hire you in this manner, are not places you want to work. A lot of the time it’s all because the owner is shady with finances.

    Overall, if I wasn’t constantly working on other ideas and didn’t need the flexibility, I wouldn’t do it. However, for someone like me who is constantly working on their own business, it’s a great line of reliable income to fund my endeavors. If you don’t have the time to work multiple jobs, again, I wouldn’t do it.

  14. PG Cody Swann
  15. PG Shari

    Iposted this comment on the Freelance Switch page on Facebook, but it looks like most folks don’t comment there, so I’m commenting here too.

    For me, freelancing full-time defeats the whole purpose of freelancing at all. Due to a variety of factors in my life that I’d rather not go into, it would be very difficult for me to work a full-time (40-hour) week, whether in an on-site office or here at home. Unfortunate, but true. That’s why I’m VERY grateful to have a steady freelance copy editing job in which I can work from home and work as many hours per week as I wish — but it sure isn’t 40! :)

    I’m just curious if anyone else feels this way?
    Cheers,
    Shari

  16. PG Scott

    Great, another word to add to my dictionary.

  17. PG Martha Retallick

    To me, permalancing is another word for exploitation.

    Why? Because it’s often done (to freelancers) by large companies that can well afford to pay full-time salaries and offer fringe benefits. I put unpaid internships in this same category — they’re exploitive work arrangements too.

    And, here’s an idea that I just got from a book called *A Presidency in Peril* by Robert Kuttner. He notes the widespread abuse of the independent contractor classification here in the United States. As a solution, he suggests that President Obama issue an executive order stating that any company that misclassifies employees as independent contractors will be ineligible for federal contracts.

  18. PG Martha Retallick

    Me again.

    There’s a U.S. federal agency that is quite interested in the tax aspects of employee misclassification. That would be the Internal Revenue Service.

    They don’t take kindly to those who commit tax fraud. To report such fraud, start here:

    http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=106778,00.html

  19. PG Bart

    I’m a permalancer and I totally like it. The benefits of a permalancer:

    1. You can leave the company whenever you like without too much hassle.

    2. You get paid every hour. Unpaid overtime does not exist.

    3. You take holidays when you want and how long you want.

    4. You can raise your prices whenever you want.

    5. You can be creative in your tax filings. Deduct all kinds of costs.

    1. PG Jen

      Hi,

      Could you kindly tell me how you file taxes?

  20. PG Evan

    Permalancing is now what I might start telling people I do! Like a few above, I also have been Permalancing for pretty well 4 years and it beats the heck out of freelancing! I have a stead pay and my employer is beyond awesome and more than fair. I don’t think I would be doing as well freelancing at this point simply because it would take 8+ hours a day to compare and I’d have to be constantly hunting for clients with all the stress included with that.

    I think what’s being lost on a few here is not having to always be courting clients and doing work which we are great at is nice, as with any contract: negotiate pay to include your own benefits and as always be choosy, I’m sure some firms would exploit freelancers.

    My personal experience and that of others I know is the permalancing wasn’t an intended goal but one that just sort of happened and everyone was happy.

  21. PG Don Wallace

    This is an excellent post with great main points. I have, at times, operated in the mode of “permalancer” or “permatemper”.

    It’s not *exactly* exploitative if you know what you are doing and why you are doing it. The IRS exposure is possible, but in practice I have known no-one who has been nailed over it.

    The main reason that you should do it (as opposed to taking a permanent position) is that you have real reasons for maintaining your IC status. This may include a limited personal commitment to that field of work, and/or the ability to operate as a “true” independent contractor and maintain your own place and hours of work.

    Also, of course, you need to charge a B2B type rate, and not accept an hourly rate that places you at the same pay level per hour as an employee.

    What I have found in practice is that familiarity breeds contempt, and most clients who see you billing regularly for an extended period will almost always start to flex their “employer” muscle and try to treat you like an employee with none of the benefits.

    I have been in several verbal disputes over this issue, which almost always happens after months into the project. Typically you get the short end of the stick in all instances: you aren’t guaranteed work and you would get no unemployment, and you have to tolerate late payments like a supposed “real business”, but you are expected to be on call or even “report” like an employee and the client even tries to supervise elements of your work. I have had a couple of clients that taunted me with my “vendor” status while trying to run my engagement like they were managing an employee.

    If this goes on too aggressively it is almost always best to end the relationship.

    Hopefully all permalancers/permatemps will have bona fide written independent contractor contracts in place that specify that they *are* contractors.

  22. PG amy

    The difference between freelance and employee isn’t about how many hours worked for one client. You can be a regular freelancer with one client asking 40 hours a week, but still work from your own office, on your own schedule with your own equipment. That’s been my situation most of my freelance career and it seems perfectly equitable. It saves me the trouble of juggling multiple clients, marketing constantly, and gives me regular work, but with most of the benefits of freelancing.

    The IRS has strict definitions of what defines a freelancer. If a company is asking someone to work on site, on their schedule, with their equipment, that person should more appropriately be classified as an employee and not a freelancer or contractor–regardless of how many hours they work, because they could still be a part time employee.

  23. PG Stefano

    I agree with Takingweb.

    Here in Italy “permalancing” seems the only way to work in the information technology sector (I am a web developer) .

    Companies contract projects to body rental agencies and these hire “frelancers” and place them to work by side for 40 hours per week as weel as an employee.

    Working as a real freelancer here in Italy seems to be very very difficult.

  24. PG Freelance School

    Very informative post Thursday. Loved it!

  25. PG Klaus

    I do not share this negative spin of the article against “permalancing”.
    In some industries (e.g. the software industry) it is quite normal that you have long running projects (one or two years) which you basically work full time for a client.

    Usually, these long-running projects give you a nice ratio between marketing efforts and revenue, while having a higher income than a comparable full time employee. So the higher rate is (economically) just an offset for the increased job risk. If you are able to keep your client happy, such a long term client can be quite beneficial.
    You just need to take care not to run into tax/social security insurance issues, or to forget to network in your industry to have a pipeline of back-up projects.
    Klaus

  26. PG gustavo Ureña

    Great post and a new definition of what I do.

  27. PG Dp

    Prescott and Bart are absolutely right (go back and read their posts!!!!!!!!!!)

    Get some health benefits from the Freelancers Union and Permalancing will be the BEST of both worlds, not the worst.

  28. PG Stephanie

    This is the first time I’ve heard of the word “permalancing” so thanks to Thursday for this article! Though the pay and the workload is secure with permalancing, I’m not yet open to the idea of waking up at this hour just to report to work. I’d prefer to work according to my desired work hours.

  29. PG Scott

    Wow, what a negative article. I’ve been a contractor for 15 years, always working for one client at a time at their office. Contracting is quite common in the programming field. So like others, “permalancing” is a new word for what has been going on for a long long time. (By the way, there’s no need to make up a new word, it’s called contracting.)

    Most of my contracts have been fairly long term. 18 months, 2 years, 5 years and so on. That provides stability and certainty for an extended period. They pay me well, but yes I need to provide my own benefits and pay taxes. But so do freelancers on both counts, so what’s the difference?

    There are people like me who have been a contractor for a long time, and will continue to be one for as long as we can. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it, and we enjoy the benefits of that lifestyle.

  30. PG Aaron

    Permalancing can be a great way to work!

    I work for an awesome company, where I get to work at home and on my time and for the most part I am in complete control of what I work on.

    I work full time and am paid accordingly plus I get bonuses all the time.

    So, if you find the right company, it is probably the best way to go, especially if you have a family and you want to spend time with them.

  31. PG BCD

    Reading this article has forced me to relive part of the nightmare that was permalancing. Permalancing, as I had experienced it, is the act of a large company hiring someone on a freelance basis to perform the duties of a staffer without paying them benefits.

    The situation I experienced was quite unique. I was hired directly by a particular large company, however a staffing agency handled the payroll, the taxes and W-2s(!), and the abysmal benefits from a company I had never heard of that I was required to pay for out of my own pocket. I eventually dropped the benefits in favor of much better benefits from Freelancers Union. I worked five days a week from 10:00am to 6:00pm, took part in company meetings, and even had a company-issued ID to get into the building. If for some reason I became ill and needed time off, I received no compensation for the days I needed to recover. I was not paid for holidays, either. Oh, and by the way…I was paid not by the hour, but by the day.

    How was it that I was expected to act like an employee, yet receive none of the benefits of being one? This was what became the scourge that is permalance.

    The company I had worked for had no intention of hiring me as a staffer, after I had been told this was a possibility. After two and a half years of dangling the carrot in front of me, the game came to an end for everyone and the company went out of business. There were many others like myself who were now without a job. Fortunately, I was able to receive unemployment benefits. Unfortunately, the company went out of business in mid-2008, when the economy was just heading into its nosedive, and many other companies running the same sort of game were turning their people into the streets as well. Hence, the five people for every one job available we have today.

    So if you’re receiving a W-2 at the end of the year, you are an employee. If you are receiving a 1099, you’re a freelancer. I received a W-2 at the end of the year, so in my eyes that made me an employee, regardless of what the company chose to call me.

  32. PG DPI

    In my experience, there is a BIG difference between being an independent contractor with a long term client and being a ‘permalancer’.

    For example, both my husband and I worked for the same magazine of a major publisher a few years back. I was an independent contractor who was hired to create a weekly illustration for an ongoing section of the magazine and he was hired as a ‘permalancer’ in the creative department.

    I had a contract which covered a full year (each year) and I was paid every 4 weeks for the work I provided each month. I received a 1099 at the beginning of each year. I worked out of my own studio with the occasional visit to brainstorm with the AD and CD every few weeks. This relationship lasted over two years until the magazine folded.

    My husband, on the other hand, was hired as a ‘full-time freelancer’ (what they actually called it). Technically his ‘employer’ was a staffing agency which the publisher used exclusively. He was expected to be in the office of the magazine every workday during typical business hours, he never worked from home. He was to take lunch and breaks according to what was allowed by the company. He was paid on a bi-weekly basis, he received a W2 and taxes were deducted by the company. He was offered no benefits from the company, but was able to purchase (very basic) health insurance from the staffing agency. If he wanted to take time off (sick days, vacation. etc.), he had to ask permission and when granted it was unpaid. From the beginning it was stated that the position may turn into a permanent staff position with benefits, but it never materialized. Negotiation of any kind was barely an option. When the magazine folded, he was given a small severance package and was eligible for unemployment (after dealing with a bit of red tape as to who actually employed him).

    IMHO, his situation most closely resembled a true ‘permalance’ (aka: ‘long term temp-ing’) particularly since THEY specifically referred to it as ‘full-time freelance’. I never considered myself a ‘permalancer’, but rather a business with a long-term client relationship. I also do not refer to myself as a freelancer (my hired gun days are long past). I have a business which works with other businesses.

    Independent Contractor:

    - Business to Business relationship
    - Works in own office space offsite with occasional work onsite
    - Works on projects as needed, sets up schedule based on their work line-up, works their own hours
    - Sets their own rates which are negotiated
    - Often hired on a retainer basis or otherwise paid 50/50 (advance/balance) or in thirds (at milestones)
    - Receives 1099
    - Pays for own benefits (health Insurance, etc.)

    Permalancer:

    - Hired hand working for an employer
    - Works onsite during typical business hours
    - Expected to work onsite every day
    - Rates set by the employer, with minimal negotiation if any
    - Typically gets paid day rate regardless of how many hours worked
    - Often promised a full time position which never materializes
    - Receives W2
    - Pays for own benefits (health Insurance, etc.)

    To any and all of you who have successful IC relationships with companies long term, I congratulate you on securing those contracts. For those who unfortunately fall into the category of ‘permalancer’, I would highly suggest taking the advice written in the article above. There is no reason to be taken advantage of by unscrupulous companies who look for every loophole to bulk up the bottom line at the cost of the workers. This is the kind of thing that is keeping our economy weak for the majority of working people.

  33. PG Issa

    The term “Permalancing” got me curious so I’ve checked out your blog. Valid points you’ve got here. Now, the only problem is that freelancing is becoming the future of work – Today.. and we see many people join the freelancing bandwagon. This is indeed very convenient for employers and this is why we really need a change in how we work today ( and legislation/labor laws should catch up! )

  34. PG DD

    Wow … Thanks everyone for such helpful information. I got a call from a creative-group hiring agency about working for a major retailer on a freelance basis. That sounded like an intriguing way to supplement my income, but just before setting up a time to talk with me they told me it was a permalance position working full-time onsite for six months to potentially a year. Something just doesn’t smell right and now I know why.

  35. PG CTogar

    Don’t discount it so readily – it really depends on the situation. I’ve been permalancing for a company for 3 years. I make almost twice as much as full-time employees in my position – more than enough to make up for a lack of benefits.

    Also – when things start to go bad, some management teams prefer to go to a more contract-based workforce to give them more flexibility.

    Bottom line, if you are a high performing worker, they’re going to try and keep you around, and I’d rather stick around while making lots more money.

  36. PG Iva

    In some countries, almost all young people are “permalancers”, sadly.

  37. PG DPI

    Unfortunately, many companies have caught on to the fact that permalancers make more hourly than their staffers and to bulk up the bottom line now offer permalancers the same hourly rate as their staffers (or less) but without any of the benefits… and at the same time cut their staff. Staffers are then out of work and permalancers use up half their earnings or more trying to cover things like health insurance, sick days, vacation, etc.

    The amount of abysmal rate permalance jobs and fake internships I have seen out there in the past 2-3 years is the worst I have seen in my entire 20+ years working.

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