Are Freelancers a Commodity or a Profession?

We usually bid on these type of websites but we are very intrigued by the fact that the guys that have the smallest bid get the job. Probably the freelancers that bid less are trying to get on top and get a higher rank on these websites but we keep seeing projects that are reposted because of websites that are not well done. The clients that don’t have experience in this type of filed of websites then they seem to get burned a lot and pick the lowest bid there is also they don’t know how much the coder deserves. We are still trying to find a website where we could get some jobs that are well paid. Maybe you have some suggestions because i saw in the article that you are talking about connections but what do you do if you don’t have them? You eventually end up on these websites.

Thanks for the great article.

Translators are asking the same questions: with crowdsourcing, low-ball is so low, you “can have” your website translated for free.
I guess you worded everyone’s fears correctly: There are “commodity” freelance job boards versus tailor-made HR pairings. It is up to you to decide where to market yourself.
I’m an entrepeneur, but I wouldn’t think of giving my “baby” away to someone who settles.

Best,

Clau

Where in the world did you get those price points? Are you serious? A simple website starting from $501? A logo starting from $150?. Jesus christ, this reminds me of a post Skellie made long ago that lost a ton of subscribers because of till Collis publicly apologized.

I did not even read your post after scanning and getting irritated at your price points. Considering this blog is read by buyers as well as sellers, this is an embarrassment. If i have some jackass asking us to do up a logo for 150 dollars i’m breaking out the MAKE MY LOGO BIGGER CREME.

Come on seriously? Are these posts no longer read before going public? How did nobody catch this efff up?

Great post. There’s been much discussion with fellow copywriters on Twitter in the last few weeks about some of the low cost projects appearing on these sites: £1.40 for an article. £12 for a few thousand words on a website. I can only think that a lot of these jobs are going to India or to students who are building a portfolio. And that’s fine as long as clients understand that – like anything in life – you get what you pay for.

Shade, it is not necessary to flame to get your point across. I placed the link where I got the prices and stated they were from 2006. I’m not sure where you live, but my graphic arts partner does produce corporate branding starting at $150 for non-profits and small businesses. I do create small websites starting at $500. It just depends who your clients are.

I’m sincerely sorry that you believe my website and business in unprofessional — “amateur” but I can assure you that my clients are very happy with my work and I have no problem justifying my research about pricing.

Thanks for posting your opinion. I’ll stick with mine.

Cheap graphic design of logos, websites, etc., demonstrates that there is a market for technical design with a basic aesthetic sensibility (some of the cheap designs are actually quite impressive, others not so much). There are people who have created systems, often LEGO-brick-like in nature, that allow them to churn out such designs with a rapidity that allows them to actually make money at it. And there are lots of people who are sufficiently satisfied with such designs that they are willing to pay for it, or maybe their budgets do not allow them to pay for more.

The danger for those of us who are professional designers is taking an attitude somewhat Luddite in nature, where we are not willing to face change. I’ve heard photographers wish death to sites like iStockPhoto, but the reality is that such wishes are vain. Those kinds of websites and services are here to stay.

However, just as the airbrush T-shirt artist at the local tourist trap is no threat to the skilled, creative clothing designer, so these other sites need not threaten us, as long as we know how to find the discerning, successful, honest companies who need what we have to offer. We need communication skills to help clients see why we are better than cheap design factories. And it doesn’t hurt to have price estimates from third parties that can demonstrate our asking price is fair.

Those freelancing bid sites are insane. I can’t believe any self-respecting freelancer would actually agree to work for those kinds of fees and for the ridiculous demands made by the clients. I have to believe most of the work is being done by people who are not full-time freelancers. I can’t imagine being able to make an actual living doing work for that kind of money. I firmly believe that kind of thing is bad for every freelancer everywhere and should be avoided like the plague.

Also, sometimes I wish this site had more articles about freelancing that isn’t related to web design.

I agree with rotationbias. Those sites ARE insane and there’s no way you could make a living by wasting all your time bidding on low ball projects.

Networking and word of mouth have always been the best way I have secured new clients. Do honestly great work and keep your clients happy, which in turn keeps you happy.

These bidding sites really get my goat, I generally avoid them at all costs. You will always get clients wanting something for nothing and ‘designers’ willing to provide. One site, to remain nameless had an advert recently and I couldn’t believe the tone of it (edited for anonymity version below)

‘I want you all to send me a logo design. The best logo designer will recieve an undisclosed amount, the 2nd and 3rd (if any) best logo designers will receive £10-15 for their work. If the best (1st) logo designer doesn’t carry on with their work or if there is any mis-understanding between me and the 1st/best designer then the 2nd shall be asked to take on the project.’

The fact that he is pre-empting a ‘mis-understanding’ and offering such a pittance would make me run a mile but so far over 20 ‘designers’ have bid, crazy.

Where do the clients, especially the small business ones get their proposed budgets? From everyone else on that outsourcing site. If the next guy with similar project requirements sets the price to up to $250 and has 20 bids, why should I not do the same. And if the bidder has bunch of “stars’ showing prior clients satisfaction next to his name, I may even feel fairly secure. Plus, there’s always the escrow, so no real deposit is needed, just pay when you are happy with the results. And if you are not happy – no problem. You don’t even have to pay to post the ad, so no money is lost. The only thing that is lost is the designer’s time, a bit of an ego and a whole lot of clients who would be otherwise willing to pay more. And how a designer can deal with outsourcing sites? Don’t participate, concentrate your effort on local clients who demand personal attention, meetings and a security of a real valid contract.

Another thing that article mentions is reducing a designer to a mare technical support. This is still something I have a hard time with as a lot of clients seem to know EXACTLY what they want and are very unwilling to back off from their ideas no matter how much persuasion is used. Sometimes, it almost feels like all they want (and are willing to pay for) is a prepress person – someone, who you send the files to and he will put them together exactly the way you want. Nothing is added, nothing is edited. This is one thing I surely have to work on, as I often struggle to make the client change his mind, no matter how much or how valid my argument is.

This is a great discussion!

I really hate these job boards and am constantly suprised that people actually put themselves forward for the jobs.

I can only presume the people putting themselves forward are trying to find a place in the market and just want a chance to improve their skills.

I hope that the ‘clients’ get what they pay for in this case and live to regret their decision.

For what it’s worth, Rita, I thought this was a great post. I like the specific points you make about how the bidding environment messes up the normal ecosystem of a professional relationship instead of just bitching that job sites are a rip-off. I’ve gotten work from bidding sites before, but I always stick to what I’d normally quote someone – I probably don’t get as many nibbles as someone bidding low, but the clients I do get tend to be fair and appreciative of the work I do for them. (And I’m happy with the pay, obviously.)

I see insanely low bids for things other than web design, but I think at least part of what helps my freelancing in online advertising is that people seem to shy away from outsourcing to another country. I generally wind up competing against US folks, so there’s no one offering $3 an hour to manage a PPC campaign. I’m sure they’re out there, but I look at what folks as for in regards to web design prices and wonder how anyone can afford to eat on those wages. I posted a job on Guru a few months back and picked a higher priced designer who is absolutely awesome, but again, I am a freelancer so I understand getting what you pay for.

Finally!
I have been questioning job boards and the damage they are doing to an entire industry for awhile. The prices on these boards can and usually are insulting to most professionals… but it is the perception to the public that you can actually get quality work for these prices that worries me.
It is becoming harder and harder to justify to the client, prices that are many times higher than what they are seeing on popular job boards. Where even $150 for a logo ( Shade? Seriously try decaffeinate ) is considered high.
Unfortunately, I do not see why professionals are continuing to use these job boards, myself included.
Nice post Rita

Nice Post. I’ve felt the same way about this sites. Until now I haven’t thought any way to say it other than “those sites suck.” I think Rita has done an excellent job of coming up good points.

Two things I’d like to add:

I good designer friend once told me that “People on those sites are looking for ‘any designer,’ I’d rather someone hire me because they like me.” That perfectly expresses my feelings about those sites.

Early in my career I was on Elance.com. It’s a nice-looking site, but it has the same problem as all the others. I’d also go so far as the say that these sites exploit creative peoples by taking a large percentage of every job, plus monthly dues.

Nevertheless, one of my best clients came from Elance. However, after Elance suspended my account, I decided it’s time to cut them out entirely. Now I keep the percentage and clients who want the moon, but are only willing to pay for a rock can keep wasting their time on Elance.

Thanks again for a great post. I hope clients read this.

excelent post!, Thanks for all the information about prices (eventhought those are outdated i found them very useful to get a base on how much to charge per proyect).

I’m starting as a freelancer and I found this post very instructive!

Here’s the thing: Sites like rentacoder will always exist. Clients will always use them, and freelancers (even a few *gasp* professionals) will always bid.

The beauty of the free market is that YOU don’t have to use the sites. The work produced by them is almost always lower quality (and yes, outrageously cheap), and everyone (buyer and seller) knows it – and they’re fine with it.

Not everyone needs a brilliant, well educated, classically trained artist to design a logo for them. Lots of people are just trying to get off the ground, and they want a logo that doesn’t suck. Oh, and they want it cheap, because they don’t have any money (see: just trying to get off the ground).

The general consensus that these sites are “devaluing” our work is just silly. There is a price paid for using them, both for client and freelancer. If you want to keep working for clients who understand and value your work, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

I just jumped on my seat reading this… be careful, this article is very well referenced. I wouldn’t like clients to come to me with this post printed as a proof of the fee i should be practicing !

Good post, Rita.

@Shade: please take a chill pill and play nice.

@Palusko: correct. Clients who know no better see those ads and believe in those rates. That, and the prevalence of places like 99designs. Even worse is crowdsourcing, which has gained momentum as a viable business option by some. See my blog about the State of Oregon’s RFP: http://azzcatdesign.com/blog/tag/spec-work.

@Rick: I agree, and yet…I still check out and apply for gigs on oDesk. Why? Because one of my very best clients came through that site. For repeat work. For work that was an Inman Innovator finalist. He recommends me to others. Who’ve paid off. Nicely, too.

Do I LIKE oDesk? Not so much. Yes, I find the rates absurd, ridiculous, exploitative: http://azzcatdesign.com/blog/web-design/recession-depression-nahodesk%E2%80%99s-got-a-gig. I’m almost universally rejected by buyers there because my rate/bid is too high. Well, they’re looking for a Happy Meal, with a prize. I’m offering gourmet cuisine at the chef’s table. LOL!

@AtiKuSDesign: my newest oDesk client is someone who regrets their earlier decision–and wishes he had found me earlier. I’m bailing him out on this project. I suspect he’ll return.

@Rita: I understand why you offer affordable prices for small businesses and non-profits. Though I enjoy working with local businesses, I’ve had more success getting industry-standard rates with out-of-state clients. I could not be profitable if I relied on local clientele.

I would assume that most of those freelancers on that site live in countries where the cost of living is much much cheaper. Alright, so people want things cheap.

What I dont get is when they’ve been burned and only want US workers for cheap labor. you’d think they’d learn their lesson.

I’ve seen logo request for 50$ and websites as low as 14$ who takes them? dont know but most of the time those ‘designers’ make a stock of templates and just change colors for different clients

I think the problem is simply that everyone wants something for nothing and there are more than a few freelancers willing to give it to them. The funny thing is that even when you do give someone a lot of something thrown in for nothing, they’ll still complain.

Back in my last stint in college before I finally nabbed my first corporate job (possibly a mistake, haven’t decided yet), I did a few web sites for people who were repeatedly ungrateful for my work or the low price.

One in particular was a man who wanted a website to sell publicly available information to people – a flawed business plan to say the least, he actually expected law enforcement agents to populate his databases for free – but I needed money and he wouldn’t go away so I decided to build the thing and have nothing more to do with him. It wasn’t too major – some database connectivity, a form to upload information, a form to retrieve information, a shopping cart connection, and, of course, a whole lotta flashing text to get people’s attention – so I quoted $500 and a couple of weeks, and after he bargained me down to $300 I agreed to take the job because, well, I was broke and we shared some mutual friends who said I was “reasonable.”

Long story short, he complained the entire time, repeatedly asking for redesigns, telling me I didn’t know what I was doing, and claiming that his registrar had said they could do everything I did for $200. Finally, I finished it, set it up, and stopped taking his calls.

For the next month he called me, called our mutual friends, and emailed me demanding my fee back and claiming that his lawyer was filing papers to claim the money back, plus hundreds of thousands of dollars in “estimated lost earnings” due to my poor design and “heel dragging.”

Toward the end of my first stint in college, I was doing some computer repair work on the side. I’d worked at a few big name computer repair shops in my area and I figured that charging half their prices for my years of repair experience was a pretty good deal…most of my clients disagreed.

The best was an older man, another friend of a friend, who was getting his first computer ever. All he needed was for me to come out, set it up, and show him how to do the basics. All right, I thought, no big deal, I’ll go out there for a few hours and show him a few things, I won’t even charge mileage – it was 60 miles out of my usual work zone – being as I’ll be with a few friends in the area that weekend.

So, I go out there, set it up, show him the basics, which he not only claimed to get but personally demonstrated his understanding of, charge $20 (special rate for a friend of a friend), and I’m on my way out the door.

I get 3 calls from him over the next few weeks, each an “emergency,” each requiring that I rush out to see him (luckily I was in the area these weekends as well).

The final one, “there’s nothing on my screen! I think you set this thing up wrong,” requires me to do nothing more than turn on his monitor for him, after which I inform him that I’m no longer doing computer repair and he’ll need to find someone else to help him in the future.

Throughout this entire experience, over the course of 4 separate visits to his house to help him with minor problems, he subtly complains the entire time I am there about the single $20 bill I charged him.

To this day, I am told that he refers to me as “that expensive computer guy.”

Simply put, everyone wants something for nothing, and there’s more than enough people willing to give it to them, and it’s all for one simple reason: they don’t value their time enough yet.

I will admit to being one of those designers that has used bid-for-project type sites and I have a few things to say in my defense.

I am “bootstrapping” it and sometimes doing work on the cheap just pays the bills. My work is not sub-standard, and I am not a beginner, however, I am just starting out as a freelancer. I never bid on a job for less than I think it’s worth, and that has cost me many a bid, always for the better. That said, my best recurring clients were found through the site that I use.

The pricing structure detailed in the article does jive in a smaller market, like where I live, because most businesses in smaller towns like mine are small businesses. There aren’t alot of corporate big fish to rub elbows with at an after-hours mixer. Just people who run a company, usually less than 10 employees, who are trying to make a living just like I am.

I AM irritated at the companies who use bid-for-project sites and ask for many versions, unlimited revision, endless back-and-forth, for peanuts. I don’t waste my time with postings like that, and I think only the non-US based bidders do bid on those. Do I think the whole thing undercuts designers, programmers, writers, and every one else? Yes, but those clients aren’t going to be on your radar anyway. Don’t worry about them.

I’ve been freelancing for 30+ years and absolutely nothing has changed at the lower end of the business. Why are freelance blogs devoting so much space to low-ball competitors, spec work and “clients” with no budgets? (easy post!). That’s not productive freelance advice, that’s whining.

If you’re making your living as a freelancer (or trying to), do you really need to be told not to work for free?

Thanks so much for revealing the elancer-type emperor who has no clothes. These sites played with my head for about a month until I saw that a very small amount of freelancers were getting about 90% of the work, using pre-made templates and obviously low-paid graphic artists. I also have noticed the price once paid for corporate logo design in the $10k to $30k range seems to have disappeared, but I wonder if that’s because the idea of a logo is becoming moot. With brand awareness all too obvious these days, maybe it’s better to look less polished? I have moved into more small business development and consulting with my business, http://www.whitespacecreative.com, because with a few lessons, a lot of entrepreneurs can get their own website or email campaign going. What’s still worth paying for are the developed, thoughtful, creative branding and problem-solving skills of designers, programers and production artists— something you won’t get for $15/hr.

I sincerely hope it’s not where the world is headed. I’ll have to get a “real” job if so! The thing I have to remind myself is that virtually EVERY business out there is in need of graphic/web design services.

I’ve always had good experiences as a freelancer (of only 2.5 years). My attitude is that if it turned south, I can always get a “real” job. But it never has!

There have been a few “bad” clients that have come along, but I think, for the most part, you can spot them at the very beginning. You usually know where it’s going, and if you can get out of the situation as soon as you see it, there’s always another, better client out there who respects what you do and is willing to work at your rates.

I think being selective (when it’s an option) is the key to surviving as a freelancer.

Great article.

I’m a designer/developer and it’s clear that the market is saturated with freelancers/out-of-workers. A couple months back I spoke to one job poster who said they were considering me but were still sifting through the 150+ applications they received on their posting! Given that you’re competing with that many people on any given job I believe that cost of living starts to become a very important factor. I’m currently charging rates that are half of what I was charging last year. Funny enough, I also landed twice as many projects last year. I’m approaching a rate that will barely get me over my living expenses and I’m sure there are people that live in other countries or a cheaper place than California (i.e. most places) that can still drop their rates considerably.

I’m hoping that the ridiculous pricing is an indicator of the economy rather than the actual value of owning a web site. I’m not fully convinced.

Commodity issues disappear by simply being selective when choosing clients. Custom graphic design is not a commodity. But generic, one-size-fits-all design certainly is.

If you’re constantly finding yourself in meetings or conversations with prospects who have no money, that’s a freelancer problem, not a marketplace problem. You do not have time to educate the marketplace unless you’re specifically being paid to do so.

Real clients have real money, real problems and real deadlines. If a prospect tells you he “doesn’t have a budget” you only need to ask two questions: “Have you ever done anything like this before?” and “How much did you spend?” If the answers aren’t satisfactory, move on! You don’t have time for amateur clients.

Okay, maybe it’s just me and I’m being too sympathetic, but the client bashing needs to not happen. Sure, there are crappy clients, but what I’ve heard in this thread so far makes me cringe. Clients are our income, and @Dan Turner/@Peter, I always feel it is my duty to educate my clients where necessary. It’s part of the package. The more respect I show my clients (despite their marketing/internet/general stupidity) the more I get referred. I’m almost glad I don’t live in a larger market, I’m afraid it might turn me into an ass. Why not be a jerk; there’s a company with a bigger budget right around the corner.

Respect your clients. They pay your mortgage.

I agree, bidding sites are bad for the industry. Not soo much because I find myself working for pennies, which doesn’t happen, but because potential clients see those prices and assume everyone should work for that.

Second, I have found, that the people looking for the best deal are ALWAYS the biggest pains in the ass!! If you offer someone a reasonable, or bargain price, and they insist on trying to lower the price even more, RUN!

Hm. I don’t feel right about this article. At the risk of having the whole Freelance Switch community come after me with tar and feathers, I’ll tell you why:

I think what you’re saying is that job board clients are pushing the envelope and degrading freelancers. However, clients of all kinds, job boards or not, are coming to freelancers for help because they *don’t know what they’re doing*.

They don’t know the costs. The time. The needs. The requirements. Etc etc.

So I wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking that job board clients are lesser than other types of clients. All are equals. All require professionalism and all require respect. They can all be made aware of some costs involved in working and be politely and diplomatically enlightened. They will all choose whether to work with a freelancer or not based on their customer experience and budget needs.

The facts you mentioned aren’t really accurate, I feel – well, at least, not in my experience:

1. Our typical clients are those we are able to “talk” to via phone, in person, or over the Internet. This communication is crucial to build trust between freelancer and client.

100% of our client communication is email based. And we garner plenty of trust through the written word, word-of-mouth referrals and a good customer experience.

2. We are able to collect many more facts about a client’s needs, budget, and corporate culture (what makes them comfortable) when we deal with a network-based client

Having used job boards, I see no difference here. You simply have more of what the client requires up front, and you have a PM system to pursue discussion about their needs. They may or may not respond, which also happens in any other environment.

3. We can educate potential clients about why we are charging the rates we propose and especially about the value of what we offer (be it years of experience, the importance of adherence to web standards, the flexibility of using vector-based design tools to create a unique and elegant corporate branding solution; and on and on) and for the most part this negotiation phase of the proposal process is very rewarding.

You can do this on job boards as well as off job boards – what’s the difference?

Maybe I’m failing to see something in the article, but this comes off as a job-board bashing scene. I think people should pursue whatever avenue to garner work that feels right for them, and apply their professionalism no matter what the environment or medium.

More thoughts:

1. The only access you have to the buyer is via internal PM which the buyer may or may not answer.

There are certainly plenty of people out there who don’t answer their email or their phone. Again, what’s the difference?

2. The job requirements are one-sided since there is no way to add your design and/or development expertise to possibly assist the buyer in making an even better result since what you are typically given to work with to create a bid is the budget, a website to look at or a document stating the requirements. One developer is like another in this scenario.

If you have a PM system available to contact the potential client and convince him of your value or worth, you always have that ability to assist him in making a choice available to you. I see this happen every day – a good salesman (and freelancers are their own salesmen) can certainly do this.

Also, everyone is distinct if they can convey that they’re special. Saying that one developer is like another but only on job boards is silly – look around the web. You have all sorts of competition out there, and much are identical clones.

The cream rises. The rest doesn’t.

3. Budgets for jobs seem to be based on the client completing a form and setting the price by checking off a range that has very little to do with the amount of work involved or any negotiations. Web design becomes a commodity and site projects are no longer unique.

I think that potential clients really don’t have any obligation at all to know what work goes into design or copywriting. All they know is that they want a site. Why should they have to research, compare differences, become involved in the process of creation and more just to make a decision on who to hire for their site? When a passenger needs to fly to Europe, does he have to learn how to fly the plane too?

Of course not. That’s YOUR job, as a freelancer, to make sure that you convey the value and worth of being chosen over cookie-cutter designers or people with lower skills or cheaper rates. And if you can’t convince them, then you certainly shouldn’t get uppity and start criticizing their lack of skills.

As for this:

Statements like: “Have been through numerous unorganized programmers who disappear way too often, private and social life takes priority over their work. We are searching for mature, dedicated people like ourselves, who take their jobs seriously and are married to their work and value their clients. We are not interested in working with anyone outside of the U.S” tell me that buyers are trying to protect themselves from deceptive bidding.

Don’t fool yourself that it doesn’t happen right here at home any less than it does anywhere else.

*goes to run and hide from the angry mob waving pitchforks and screaming, “Kill James!”*

@Dan Turner Thank you for your response. I agree with you in your disagreement with what you may have thought I was saying.

I have told more than a few clients that I can’t do for them what they want for the budget they have set. In doing so, I have earned more than a few as recurring clients because I communicated with them and developed a relationship as a designer AND a consultant. That’s all. I respect myself and my skills. I’m really good at what I do. I just wouldn’t want people who might consider hiring a freelancer to stumble upon this site and see the contempt for “clients” that is apparent in the posts I’ve seen recently, and in this thread specifically.

So are there any places online where freelancers can find work without bidding?

On a side note, if your quote is higher than what the client wants to pay, you politely wish them well and send them off. Hell. It’s that simple.

Rates can go very low, especially on the big freelance aggregation sites. It can be frustrating. The general problem is an over-saturation of the labor market. There are thousands of people who call themselves freelance web programmers and many more who call themselves freelance writers. If I had to compete with all of those people, I’d be worried about making a living too. Luckily, I learned a long time ago that I want to compete with as few people as possible and I want as many advantages over those people as I can get. That is why I work in a narrow market and why I spent the extra time and money to get a Master’s degree in my field. It is one of the many items on my resume that sets me apart from my competition. When I apply for a gig, there are at most ten other competitors, and in most cases I have at least one thing on my resume that the others don’t. You have to find a way to set yourself apart from the competition or you’ll be crushed by the sheer numbers.

Well the article has certainly stirred a healthy and ongoing debate.

As someone who has spent $10,000+ on these sites as a buyer over the years (odesk, rentacoder, etc) I can tell you exactly why I use them. Often times it’s only because I could do the work myself, and I just don’t have time to do it. So I’d happily pay someone $100/$200 to get this off my plate while I’m working on higher-value tasks.

I’m not looking for the world’s leading WordPress expert, just someone who can code the CSS based on my specific instructions. That type of skill IS a commodity.

But you all having nothing to fear. You get what you pay for. I don’t expect the person bidding $80 for a 5-page static website to give me their phone number, let alone answer it when I call at 5pm on a Friday. If I was paying $2000 for the same thing, I would expect five-star including documentation and a hug at the end.

Do you think the high-end steakhouse fears competition from the McDonald’s down the street? There’s room in the market for both types of service providers.

Wow. I didn’t know I would stir a hornet’s nest here. My point is the two-tiered nature of freelancing. My direct experience with the places where jobs are bid is with Joomlance and eLance. Both times the premium paid back to the site seemed way larger than was warranted given you were paying dues to gain a reputation. That spelled commodity to me. One person is as good as another.

I’m not putting down these sites because they serve a purpose. I just never learned how to “game” them — pick up the reputable repeat clients, which is my goal.

By the way, I really would love people who are in the market to read what we charge or don’t charge because they might gain a better perspective on what we do and why it is so labor intensive.

To the person who asked for the leads on good job sites. I’ve had the best luck by word of mouth. The most honest job site is actually a wonderful blog written by an employment cooperative called http://www.jobmatchbox.com located in my city, Washington, D.C. It gives you the employer’s perspective but its job listings for freelancers and contractors are very honest and well-paid. I also like Smashing Magazine’s job listings as well as A List Apart’s job board. These boards vet their postings.

As a writer, I’ve gained most of my job leads by joining Washington Independent Writers and other local organizations as well as the Author’s Guild. Associations of like-minded professionals have great job boards. Writer’s Weekly (http://www.writersweekly.com/) is a great resource for learning about the business of writing and copywriting and has a very good listing. I started out looking at Craig’s List but it became cluttered with non-existing jobs or even scam jobs.

Thanks for educating me about the pros and cons of the professional and the jobber.

@ Joel – Thanks for mentioning that price discrimination issue. That bugs me, a great deal, especially when I see comments like, “You can’t get THAT for $15.”

You actually can. And sometimes, at better quality than the $500 stuff.

We live in a global business world, people, and not everyone lives in the most expensive location. $20 where I live goes farther than someone’s $20 in California but a lot less farther than someone’s $20 in Russia.

AND THAT’S FINE.

It’s a pretty arrogant person who’ll pick on the next guy because they charge lower BECAUSE THEY CAN and because it works for them. You charge more? Then show why your value is worth that money and convince people that they should give you that money – and not by taking pot shots on other people who chose to charge rates that fit them.

I have a hard time figuring out why pricing is such an issue for so many freelancers. My rates are what they are. People accept them or don’t. Some think they’re too high, some think they’re too low. I really don’t care.

I care about conveying what I can do for a customer. And that person has enough brains to decide whether I’m worth my rates or not. Without me having to put down the next guy.

I am always in awe at the sheer insult some of these site bring onto our profession. A website from start to finish even a 2 page site would take a few days to design, cut and code, how someone thinks 80 dollars for 3 days of work makes sense is beyond me. I ask them to tell their mechanic that their transmission needs rebuilding (which will take about 3 days) and you would like it for 80 dollars because thats the amount of money you feel its worth or someone’s brother who owns 3 wrenches and a pair of overalls said he can do it for that much. You may get hit in the head with a wrench….

I think its a 2 part problem, the first part, are the designers and developers that play into this world and the other is the uneducated client who does not understand the value of what they need. I am a firm believer of you get what you pay for. No one buys a Bentley and says ehh well it’s made a little flimsy..

We build CUSTOM solutions, sell custom services, and create custom products, the word custom alone says “not a rack size” or “costs real money”. Say this word in an audio car shop prices go thru the roof, say the same word at auto body shop, people choke on their coffee because they hear $$$’s. Tell a woodworking you would like hardwood custom cabinets in your kitchen and you would probably be paying a small fortune to get this look tailor fitted to your situation. Only on the web I find people with outrageous bids, and even more so people who actually do the work for these prices.

All these sites should be shut down, they ruin the design business. I think because people are still trying to wrap their heads around the web in general there is a lot of snake oil being sold and there is little resources for the new client to cross reference things to. I think these bidding sites are kind of gross. That and Craigslist. I want to answer peoples posts at times, saying “Are you nuts? Would you like me to pay YOU then do the job?” then cooler heads prevail and I help the clients who do understand.

Wow you guys literally took this post right out of my mouth. I’ve actually written several similar posts and LinkedIn questions about this topic. It’s outrageous to me that people expect full blown websites for $200, and even more outrageous that developers actually bid on it. This is why I don’t waste my time on freelance bidding sites; too much competition and too much lowballing.

On the sites where you can bid the prices are very low because there are a lot of people from asia that can bid lower than those from europe. The cost of living is much lower in asian countries.
This doesn’t mean that they don’t provide good quality work!

My analogy – you do not go into a Doctors office and TELL him how much you will pay for your visit. You have an illness that you go to him to treat to make you well – although ideally you should be trying to stay well yourself (tangent). And yes these fees have shifted – thank you ins. companies.

But the point is I do not feel a client has the right to TELL me how much my design work or service should cost – period! And also that I “should not expect a penny more!”. A budget is one thing – but outrageous demands, $50 logos and unlimited changes are things I do not subscribe to – not worth my time. There are some mighty big egos out there with a crazy sense of entitlement. And last time I checked, a right to free or cheap design work is not one of the Bill of Rights!

My last two clients took the time to read my artist section and several of my blog posts dealing with overblown egos and a lack of gratitude in our world – my brutal honesty so to speak. And I was exactly the type of designer they were looking for. They – both small business with limited budgets – yet they paid without incident and were appreciative and grateful.

As for job boards – do not even get me started! I do feel that they are devaluing the design community – but sadly the reality is- that more than likely that they will continue to exist. In fact I was just solicited by a new up an coming site about them matching designers with what clients are willing to pay – sound familiar??? When I emailed them and asked what made them different and brought up a few key issues – I never heard back. Ha! No surprise there!

Rita, I am from New Delhi, India and I am a part time freelancer for couple of years. In my whole part time freelancing career, I have not bid on these website because I charge $30 per hour (which by the way many people think is very high since I am from India and they expect that I should charge $5 per hour) even though I have a full time job as a UI Designer and Developer. Do you know why these so called companies are able to go so low? They hire trainees who are fresh out of school to do the job. They hire these trainees, who actually pay these companies to work on the projects and get something on their resume. If I am that company I will charge $10 per hour from you and also I will charge $20 per hour from these trainees for giving them an opportunity. So, in effect i am pocketing $30 per hour. What is the result for you? Sub standard work and delay in completing the project by months…..

This is the truth and believe me I know.

This is really frustrating. These kind of companies or people are making other freelancers bleed to death.

I actually branched out into these boards as well recently, in an attempt to build up my portfolio of clients.

Quite frankfully it has not worked out at all. I had one client get back to me with the following response.

“Not an interesting bid for the following reasons:

- Your the most expensive, (removed) dollars?
- And you have no feedback yet.

Keep in mind for your next bids on (Site Name Removed). Without positive reviews you cannot ask top price. ”

This sums up the mentality of the type that converges on these sites. While I’m proven in what I affectionately call the real world and I am a rookie in the commodity boards.

It was quite unnerving, but I counted to ten and thanked the client for his feedback and attempted to inform him why I charge so much more than the other bidders despite the lack of commodity site reputation. In the end I still did not win the bid, as I firmly believe that those who are looking for projects on these sites, know the game they are playing is a benefit to them more than the developer.

Personally I do not have the time to build up a reputation by taking a low price, when I can network in the “real world” and get paid a proper rate.

However I do not want to say that these sites don’t work for everyone. To each their own, but to each, PLEASE do your research on pricing, this article is great and we should share it and other similar information to inform those who are uninformed.

Sort of in response/follow up to ‘MikeMcD’ – I recently signed a client who went the overseas(Indian) route and faced the problem with the site not being completed and poorly coded.

So there’s another person who now fully understands the term: “You get what you pay for”

Wow, such a range of opinions, unfortunately some are given as knee jerk emotional reactions before thinking.

I’ve never used any of those bidding site to get work, though I have used them the odd time here and there to offload some tasks I didn’t want to work on. I did however charge really low rates when I started out, just to get some work under my belt, build some references. etc… That was simply where I was in the marketplace, and I knew that. But now I charge much higher rates and am also getting more and more consulting work at very nice professional hourly rate. My business slowly grows as my skills improve, and I up my rates along the way.

All my work comes to me, I don’t actively seek it out. I am now my own market. The low end of the market does not compete with me. In my world the low end of the market does not even exist. It is irrelevant.

My direct competition are my colleagues within my niche and we interact via email, twitter, and blogs as well as meet at conferences. We share ideas and even refer clients back and forth, so not much of a competition so much as assisting each other to build our market.

Many of my web design clients are looking for a complete rebuild of an older website. They started out with something cheap and basic, it got their business onto the web. Later they began to realize their web presence could be even better, and help attract more business, so now they are ready to pay up and get a better product this time.

So whether you fall into being a commodity or a professional is entirely up to yourself. If you are stuck at commodity level you need to figure out what it will take to get past that, and then do it until you get there. There are others who are perfectly happy at the commodity level. Some who are true specialists at one thing and can pound the work out quickly and efficiently, but they are making professional level wages ($100 to $200 per hour) because they can get it done so fast while keeping the quality high.

It’s not all rosy in my world. I still have slow periods from time to time. I use those to work on my marketing, or building relationships through networking with colleagues. I do from time to time still get requests from clients not prepared to pay my kind of rates. I’m getting better at knowing when to say no, but I still screw that up once in a while and take a project I should have declined, then kick myself the whole time I’m doing it. But overall I’m now attracting the types of clients I want as I’m sitting firmly in the section of the market I belong, with room still to move higher, when I’m ready.

Shut down the job board sites? Ok, if you can pull that off I’d happily open up another one to service an obvious gap in the market.

What bothers me with the Job Boards is that it’s practically impossible to gather a client base, based on the projects you acquire. If you’re asking 90$ for a week’s worth, then how are you ever going to ask that client your standard 50$ hourly price on a next project? You can’t. So from where I stand, these kind of bidding boards are a no-go for many freelancers.

It doesn’t matter if they are offering cheap services.
They are not my type of clients either so I don’t participate in those kind of websites.

I agree with Derek, work of mouth is the best way to get good clients!

@ Stever – Hear, hear. Ditto. Well said.

Look at this one:

http://jobs.wordpress.net/2009/10/11/integrate-wordpress-into-website/

25 bucks, isn’t this great?

Shouldn’t we just let the natural balance/order of things settle this? These sites will be around because there are always people (and not just our clients) who want more for less. These sites have just started to get their gusto, and I think over time, people using them will realise that they get what they pay for. Perhaps this is still a honeymoon phase?

Why don’t all freelancers then create a section on their websites explaining the difference between these services and hiring a professional designer? That way if clients see enough sites with similar information, they will learn about best practice. But you can’t blame clients for not knowing if it is their first foray into hiring designers. If good designers don’t use these sites, then they will naturally lose their reputation. Or perhaps gain reputation for being something else, like a source of cheaper labour from countries where there is a lower cost of living? Not that there aren’t great designers from everywhere.

It’s the nature of the universe

I’m quite new to freelancing, I freelance part time as a youth web design mentor keeping teenagers on some kind of career path, in a few London agencys and also as myself on a startup-company.

As I live in London, my living costs are astronomical, so I know my rate and it will never bend for any client. Frankly working for the rates listed on Elance and sites like it are not an option at all for me so I don’t pay them much attention.

When it comes to freelancing directy with a client, I prefer to work in my (huge!) local area and I’m trying to drum up a rather ideal client base of 10-20 people so I can rely on the money i’ll be paid to keep their websites updated and expanding as a good monthly bottom line. Its something that has worked out well for me and the clients as the clients can rest assured that I am just a train ride or phone call away when they need me.

The market created by these sites is a complete polar opposite to the kind of market I work in, with clients valueing and ongoing commitment and a (i think) decent standard of web design.

However recently my rates were challenged by a particularly grumpy client who had seen the standard rates on a few of these sites. He wanted me to design and build a website to match the £75 job spec he’d posted. I managed to sidestep this by saying;

“I can guarantee that the site I’m charging you £500 for will be better designed than the others, if it is, I’ll knock that £75 off my full cost in good faith.”

His eyes lit up completely at that moment and I’d say it was just as much about my proximity to him as to the saving. Of course I didn’t build the site before he’d agreed to my design, he had to make that leap of faith himself.

I’m currently building the site for him and I wouldnt say he’s the most pleasant clients I’ve worked with, but he atleast is understanding that the site he wants will always cost more than the site he likes the cost of. He definately understands the “If you pay peanuts, you’ll get monkeys” philosophy.

I’d say if you simply create a website or a brand and don’t follow up on your relationship with a client, then you are at risk of being undercut by these sites, no matter the quality of work.

The open bidding process and allowing the customer to dictate the pricing is what has turned this into a commodity.

Before these sites existed, a client might put out a Request for Proposal (RFP) and have designers or agencies submit quotes / proposals to them based on a detailed description of the project. The competing designers or agencies didn’t have access to the others’ info so they quoted based on what it would take to most effectively accomplish the customer’s goals.

Even smaller businesses who didn’t prepare RFPs would often approach a couple of different designers and get estimates (or quotes) and then make a decision.

In either scenario, the designer could have the opportunity to assess a potential client’s needs, recommend alternative options that could point to cost savings or higher effectiveness and get a good understanding of the client’s target market.

Now a business owner can post an often vague and incomplete description of a project and have dozens of people from around the world submitting public bids, which drives down the cost, as they are trying to “win” the job, often at any “cost.” It’s like eBay for designers and yes, it turns design into a commodity.

I understand that people in different parts of the world can charge less because of their standard of living. And I’m fine with that. But the open bidding process is flawed, and in many ways, by the popularity of such sites, it has an adverse effect on the entire design industry.

I think you guys have hit it gold with a post like this. I hope to see many more just the same. I came on here and saw 72 comments and was completely surprised. I like seeing articles that create such a huge debate such as this one.

Great post Rita.

I agree with you as well. I don’t pay too much attention to these job boards because quite frankly they scare me. I’m a student, only 19, and even at 19 I can easily charge out more than what these people are bidding jobs for. I really feel that if you are willing to take a risk most of the time you will get what you want. I low-balled my first freelance project but quickly learned a lesson and here is why:

I was in high school, junior year I believe, and I was active in learning web design but had only been doing it for about a year or so regularly. Prior to this it was more of a “when I have time.” It wasn’t until the end of my junior year I started to pick it up as less of a hobby and more of a career path. I was referred by my new boss to work on a website for a guy at Auburn University. I bid the site at $350. It was way underbid but a lot better than these job boards. I soon realized that I could charge way more than this. The next site was for an auto dealership brokerage firm. I upped the bid this time to $800 and they accepted without a problem. I began to see that although some people will give you trouble, most of the time taking a risk on your bid will allow you to get more money and still not make you lose a client. Since then i’ve slowly upped the ante to a comfortable area and now I feel like I have found the right price to bid. But it sure isn’t anywhere near what the job board freelancers accept work for.

I absolutely agree. We recently launched a job board specific to iPhone developing ( http://www.GetAppsDone.com ) and try to go back to the basis, where the client just post a description of what he’s looking for and the freelancer can just email them. We don’t manage the communication, the price or anything else. We are just a “craigslist for iphone freelancer” and I think that all the job boards should be like this.

I had really bad experience as buyer as well on sites like elance and odesk, mainly cause you can’t get an hold on the service provider not being able to use conventional tools like emails and phone.

Wow thank you so much for this article. I really needed it. I had come across a couple of these job board sites and was shocked at how low the prices were for the projects. Things like $500 for a full fledged e-commerce site or $10 for 5 book cover designs kind of threw me for a loop. Your pricing structure is amazing and fits pretty much what I’ve experienced so far and gives me an idea for the future. I’ve been curious as to what the averages were and this helped me out tons.

Thank you so much for your post!

Sincerely,
Ben

Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned is how often projects from these crowd-sourcing sites go bad for both the freelancers and the clients.

These types of low-cost projects are prone to participants who are willing to plagiarize or violate copyrights. There have been numerous “winning” logos on logo crowd-sourcing sites that have turned out to be stock art straght from dollar-stock-art places like istockphoto.com (which clearly violates their terms), or ripped of from other logo designers. This opens up the client to big legal issues, not to mention embarrassment.

http://twitter.com/specwatch is a good place to see a running feed of just how frequently these things go wrong (and these are only the problems that are publicly accessible)!

Thank you so much for writing this article. As a new freelancer, I find this write very helpful, especially on the pricing part!

Personally I believe that spec work of this nature devalues the industry as companies try to get something for almost nothing and are giving opportunities to unqualified individuals that a saturating the market place with a lower grade of work. You get what you pay for, sometimes you are paying for the recognition of a brand, sometimes you are paying for speed, sometimes you are paying for quality, but when you refuse to pay for any of those things you have to ask yourself what you are really getting. To be frank the answer is that you are getting crap.

Worse the misconception that this is “great” because it was my idea, or what I bought, and therefore the expected standard, convinces others that they should follow suite. Then you end up with other people wanting to duplicate mediocrity.

Rita, this is just a fantastic article and great points made. Kudos. This is far deeper and more insightful material than most of the postings on Freelance Switch have been lately.

And the people getting angry aren’t GETTING IT.

Here’s how I see it. I have worked as a freelance software developer since ’93. I have witnessed this disparity between the two “contingent labor” markets that you described for many years.

There are two ways that freelancers/consultants find work: 1) they look for it themselves using their own network and their own social and presentation skills; or 2) they look for an “available” project using whatever advertising, listing or brokerage mechanism is available.

You basically said the same thing. There are cattle calls (ads) and there is client coming to you with a degree of trust built already. Entirely different dynamics.

What it comes down to is, freelancers who primarily use agencies and scan ads are seeing *only* the commodity-driven requests for “help”.

Those are the jobs that are packaged up *like* miniature “jobs.” Those deals are almost, in all instances, EXACTLY like a “cattle call”.

The would be client is fishing for someone “good” and “cost effective” among many applicants waving their hands shrieking “pick me! pick me!” And the client will compare notes and will shop one out against the other.

Basically, the client is acting like a damned employer. With none of the responsibilities, like withholding or unemployment payments. And you’re the hired hand flunky.

While freelancers who acquire new clients by request or by networking – IE, the prospect pings you at your web site, or is referred to you by someone else – are able to set the perceptions to the prospective client – including complexity, effort and cost of the project.

I’m not saying that I would ignore the “ad/agency” driven sources of work – but the dynamics are both against making a convincing case of your unique worth, as well as being against even landing the work (just because there’s so many applicants flooding in.)

Now, having said all that – as a homeowner, a few years ago I selected a contractor for a large remodeling project on our house. I found five contractors through Angie’s List, which already does quality ratings of contractors. And I interviewed each one and compared each one’s proposal to the others. I selected the “best” one in terms of best terms and most for the money.

In a way this looked like a cattle call being conducted by me and I was “commoditizing” those contractors by getting a bunch of estimates. The difference between that case and the instance of creative freelancers is that most of these home remodeling guys were within $5-$10K, or about 30%, of each other’s bid. Nobody was 20% of someone else’s bid. In other words, bottom bid was, say, $30K, top bid was $40K or so.

But that – provider A is 10% of the pricing of provider B – is a *very* common occurrence in this lousy “competitive” bidding situations in the creative arts.

The bottom line is this: ANYONE using an ad service (Craigslist, Rent-a-whatever, or a broker, or an agency, etc) to find their gigs WILL see a traffic jam of competitors. It will NEVER change. And the results may be great, more typically the results will be lame or incomplete to middling.

Just as Jesus said “the poor will always be among us”; so too will cheap prospects will always be advertising for inexpensive, “undiscovered” diamond in the rough whom they believe have not been “spoiled” by high rate expectations.

You see, to a client that advertises to the “many” qualified freelancers out there, you’re spoiled and arrogant for not thinking that their piddling rate is wonderful.

It will never, ever, EVER change. ‘Twas always thus.

A few more thoughts:

Someone advertising a project probably isn’t looking for a professional. They’re really looking for a temp.

Someone advertising for help isn’t looking for someone who is really in business. They are probably going to prefer someone who is sort of struggling, who has a hard time finding work, who will give them a deal.

Finding good clients who will pay a good rate and who will trust you and who are *your* clients is hard work and is an ongoing process and requires lots of patience and just plain time. It’s not going to happen overnight nor is it going to happen just because your checking account bottomed out.

Going to a job board is a quick-fix “solution” to an immediate source of pain.

And I recommend that anyone who is offended by job board postings immediately stop looking at them, because they DO mess with your head.

Go market yourself instead. Don’t even look back. Don’t look at the ads if you don’t like them.

Thanks for another Great Article. I totally agree with all of the responded comments , nowadays on these online job board sites, they are lowering the status of our profession . It really is a shame due to the economy that some people will accept these low balling offers that will overall affect the whole design/programming communities value and standards.

So I’ve been reading all the replies and want to offer another perspective, that of the small business owner.

It would be wonderful if the web development industry would accredit yourselves – at least have an organization that provides some sort of watchdog service. (You know, like the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval for Developers!) (with designers, you can see their work, so you should be able to see quality and skill – with development it is a bit different).

This would be an enormous benefit to the consumer who has no idea what they are purchasing — and might provide for a common contract that protects both sides.

This doesn’t mean that you’d have to price yourself at a low ball rate, in fact could most likely raise rates as a member.

And honestly, as someone who has been burned by the never ending project (deadline, what deadline), even with “reputable” companies, the development industry coulf use some self-policing. (you know the saying about one bad apple).

Anyhow, just another perspective — for what it is worth.

I believe the lowball trend on such sites were probably in part propagated by a simple lack of granularity in the form where a client selects the budget. It’s usully a drop down that starts at 0-500 then 500-1000 etc so that creates a huge grey area in budgets instead of allowing some sort of valid way to help the client price a job out based on actual data and expected time and wages typical of a skillset.

There are several dynamics taking place in society that will change everything you have known to be the norm.

1. Graphics, Typography, Copyrighting, etc. are all becoming commodities and folk arts. Meaning that it will become increasingly harder to make a living at them. Yes there will always be highly publicized people making a fortune, but not the norm. For example, it is becoming like Acting… many people act and are very good at it but how many make a living at it? Only there will be even less of those “Big Breaks”. Why is this happening? Because of the ready low cost availablity of technology. When I started 30 years ago you needed a couple of million dollars worth of equipment, plus several professionals and technicians to produce a brochure or anything more than a typewriter page. Today…. one artist and a kinkos. (www is even worse, you dont even need the kinkos).

2. Equalization of economics, 30 years ago you could not feasibly go foreign to get any of this done. Now you can multiply the averages of all the standards of living of every participating country and divide by that the number of willing workers and you have a new price point. In other words the same logo that you used to get $500 for is now $27.50. However, it is not all bleak, it will probably go up from there, in fact, the lowest costs providers will find their income increasing. I predict that logo price will stabilize in 20 or 30 years to about $60. However, that also will disappear, in the distant future as technology will allow anyone who can think to create representational art without any knowledge whatsoever of any graphic process. Most of the professionals will drop out and be replaced by hobbyists, advanced algorithms, and a lowered standard of acceptable quality (advanced cookie cutter solutions).

3. Why is this happening in our field and not others? For one thing we have no certification, licensure, or regulation, like say… law, medicine, cooking, science, or any other disipline even tattooing in some places.

“Sorry – but these certifications have revealed themselves to be absolute pap and are worthless for determining the real world ability of a developer. They test book knowledge and test mastery (and ability to game tests), not the ability to pull a solution together and to provide a useful product to a client.

The worth of a developer is a complex interplay of creativity, technical expertise, *and* the ability to take business commitments seriously. A test only measures rote knowledge. ”

Oh thank you for this clarification because it makes perfect sense. Remember I said that I can’t pass the web design certificates because I never had the book learning but learned on the job what I need to know. I have worked with a lot of developers and you are absolutely correct in your description of the difference between knowing the names of things, or “box models” or such, vs. really knowing how to scope out a client’s needs, create a design that is elegant and testable, then coding it as efficiently as possible. The utmost test is then to make it user friendly. I think you’ve really hit on something important.

Recommendations, word of mouth, and a track record are what matter more than letters after your name.

Great post.

One of the better posts I’ve read in a while. Good work.

It can be a problem to find clients with reasonable expectations. I’ve been getting a few potential clients who want a website that will change the world or that is a money-making machine but who don’t want to pay good money. I’ve learned to turn them down because they are a headache to deal with at times. The paradox is that the ones who don’t want to pay end up being the ones who give the most trouble.

I have a theory that seems to have proved true so far: If in the first conversations the client feels like trouble, they likely will be.

I’m still not buying into the hype about the tools being too accessible now and the “dynamics taking place in society that will change everything you have known to be the norm.”

So computers and software are affordable and everyone can be a graphic designer now. And so some of those “designers” are willing to work for peanuts. So what. Clients with real work, who need real design solutions and know the value of good design will always be willing to pay more for the best work and not go through the hassles of dealing with some amateurs who look for jobs on outsourcing boards. Good clients will always go with real designers and design companies, people they know or have heard of or have worked with before. And the same old rules will still apply when it comes to finding those good clients. Network, meet people, get your name out there, talk to people.

We were reading these same discussions 5 years ago when everyone thought these very same wannabe designers were storming the gates and working for pennies. We’re all still here, the bargain basement designers are still here (just in greater numbers), and the clients are even more aware today than 5 years ago that good design costs money. Some of our clients have even tried the cheap alternatives, with little or no success.

There may be more competition out there, but it’s not competition on the same level that anyone here who really considers themselves a professional should be concerned with.

Rita,

You obviously didn’t go far enough with your research regarding how to price yourself for design jobs. The Graphic Artist Guild produces a book every year called “The 12th Edition Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines” and this book is a designer’s best friend. It tells us how to price our projects depending on our skill level, education, job description and area where we live.

In the past, I’ve looked into the online design job boards for work and was disgusted with what clients were asking for a project.

This is OUR industry and it is OUR responsibility to price the work we do by our education, experience and talent. If someone does not want to pay us what we are worth, then we are better off without them.

Clients that low ball projects and try to determine how much a project is worth are NOT designers and have no clue on what it takes to accomplish the job. Clients have no experience in OUR field, so why are you letting them tell you how much you should get paid?

As the old saying goes, “You pay what you get”.

I charge the following:

• Production: $100.00/hr.
• Graphic Design: $125.00/hr.
• Web Design: $150.00/hr.
• Web Development and Flash: $200.00/hr.

My time is valuable and I’m worth every penny that I work for.

A lot of US-based freelancers fail to realize that not only they face global competition but high quality competition too.

* A good US designer may charge $100/h. A good designer in Ghana charges $10/h. A designer with comparable skills in Denmark will charge $200/h because Denmark is a very expensive country and costs are different there. That means that one can commission high quality work for 1/10th of the US price or double the US price depending on who one is doing business with. It is a fact, face it.

* The profession is not becoming a commodity but because of globalization pricing is becoming a lot more competitive. As in everything one can position oneself accordingly, e.g. the most cost-effective, the most service-oriented, etc. Speaking English as a native language and being in the US doesn’t make one a ‘high-end’ solution. There are millions of people in other countries that have good English skills, good working practices, a lot of talent and charge a fraction of the US price.

Have you ever eaten at McDonalds, brought clothes at Walmart or drive a mass produced car that wasn’t personally hand-crafted by a collaboration of German engineers, Japanese scientists and Italian designers?

Or even worse, watched a cheap $20 movie when you could’ve gone to a $200 opera, play or live performance. (If you rented a $3 DVD, you should probably lynch yourself.)

If so, then you’re one of those El Cheapo clients who you are criticising.

And you know what? People still attend expensive operas, buy high-end cars and eat at restaurants where the entree costs more than an entire week’s food for you peasants.

And there’ll always be a McDonalds across a rotating French restaurant atop a 50-storey tower. And both will do jjust fine.

In answer to the question in the post title, I think that it depends on the industry. Anything that can be done well cheaply, will be. And if that is commoditization then that’s what we’re left with.

In the online marketing world web design is already a commodity; do not even suggest that overseas designer can’t compete skill wise with North Americans because this is not the case.

What seems to be happening however is that content production (not spam production but real content) for English websites and marketing is drifting back into the hands of those with English as a first language. Copy writing and marketing in general requires more than a technical grasp of a language; it requires a broad grasp of idioms and the shared culture of the target market.

The one thing that is keeping prices higher than they will be is that demand is still outstripping supply to some extent, and many North American small businesses are either unaware of or uncomfortable with overseas outsourcing options. This is rapidly changing, and I honestly don’t see things getting any better. In fact those job listing prices we scoff at may well become the standard, or close to it until the cost of living and labor overseas begins to rise.

A good customer service is always something you can use to compensate for any price difference. Last month I spent some good hours going through options and possibilities with a potential customer. I knew my price was not the best one but I end up closing the deal.

It is quite common to talk to a customer who has a mistaken view about how the process will happen or who is frustrated due to a previous bad experience. So, do your best and treat everyone with respect that you will certainly succeed.

It is a shame when you think about it as it begins to devalue the industry. But really, it happens with everything as it’s supply and demand.

Usually quality costs a little more and if people are offering their services for ‘too good to be true’ prices, you have to ask yourselves why. Usually, the service will either be low quality or the copywriter has lots of free time to fill, hence the bargain price. Use with caution!

I have a copywriter friend who works in a country where the pound/dollar is worth far more than his local currency. He uses these sites as is a skilled writer. He can undercut what most people offer in the West and still come away with a good wage. He communicates with clients via Skype.

This is just an outworking of globalisation and means that it’s important to create a more bespoke and personalised service that people will pay for.