Freelance Radio, Episode 10: The Opening Salvo

Awesome podcast once again. I really enjoy the show and looks forward to it every week. However I would like to make one suggestion, I’d love to see you pull “guest” on to the podcast. I am not sure if you guys record during insane hours but I would say start with the other contributors and then if that gets old pull people from the forums. I think that would be really cool. Pretty most know how to use Skype

I really like to hear a show on the following:

1)Client revisions outside of allowed revisions
2)What to do when clients abuse the above
3)Charging hourly, does it shock the client when you present it
4)How do you let the client know if you charge hourly how much you have charged (do you tell them on a regular basis or surprise them at the end of the project?

Your promoting “pixish” is not very wise, If you say it is for fun then why there is money involved. It is spec work no matter which way you cut it. I was also not amused with the comment “you got to do what you got to do to get the work done”, you are degrading your own industry and field of work.

Sadly, I agree with bejamshi about the Pixish comments. This episode was quite good, but the comments made about Pixish seemed to go entirely against everything that freelancers at Freelance Radio have stood for, namely doing work at a value that is far lower than deserved.

Obviously there were different opinions presented about Pixish (listen for John’s reticence) but I felt a slight level of reluctance to engage Dickie in a discussion about spec work as it relates to Pixish. I’m sure this was due to time constraints. In the future I would love to hear you guys’ take on spec work. I think it’s absolutely ridiculous.

I’m having a contest at my house next week to see who can cook the best pasta dish. After eating all of the pasta dishes that other cooks have paid for and spent time on, I will then determine who I award my $20 to. Sound ludicrous? I thought so.

@John

I don’t mean to get personal but I am pretty sure I understand what everyone else does. However your new media guru status leaves me in the dark. You mentioned you make web sites, podcast and by your websites it seems like your a consultant. What are you really? I am just curious.

i have yet to listen to this weeks podcast but i can see based on the comments i am likely going to be upset by some of it – i will comment more on that after i listen tonight

now to get something off my chest that ive wondered about since podcast #1
i echo what patrick says about the new media guru
but my beef is with dickie
jack of all trades? what trades?
jack of all trades, expert of none?
in an earlier episode when john asked him for his website he actually refused to give it up
i don’t know
maybe we are all taking advice from some hack that can’t design/code/photograph/garden his way out of a paper bag
i don’t imagine this is the case
but i would really like to know more about both john and dickie and why, aside from being good hosts, they are qualified to be giving advice on freelancing

When I calculate my rate, I use the basis of 25 billable hours per week. Then I reverse engineer what I should be making per week (my desired annual salary divided by 50 weeks). The reason I use only 25 is to compensate for the “lost” time that comes from the back-and-forth of working on a project. Sending emails, returning voicemails, etc. can create small gaps of an hour here, and hour there. It adds up. Also, I find that if I track out my time over the course of several months, I’m only working 6 or 7 weeks out of ten. (I work largely on-site so the weeks are 40+ hours). In this case, I am essentially charging to compensate for my unemployment and job-seeking time.

For those that had issue with the Pixish comment: did you go out and read the news post on their site in regards to this issue?

Sorry to hear you were not amused by the comment bejamshi. I create designs all the time to demonstrate to my potential clients what I think they could accomplish. If they don’t choose that design, I store it to be used in future projects.

In the case of Pixish, I carefully look at the project and determine if it is worth my time. I’ve entered the Jonathon Coulton one, but not because I want the prize, but I want to help Jonathan (who I’ve met in the past).

Philip: what’s your address? That $20 is mine!

I’ll try to coordinate with John and the team, and perhaps we can have a podcast related to the subject.

Dickie about time you got your picture up! I listed to the old podcast but I could never see it until now.

Hey Dickie, just wanted to say that I enjoy your input but no one agrees 100% with every word I have to say too either so just wanted to say I still appreciate your input on this site.

Fascinating episode. I think one of the most interesting parts was John impressing upon Kristen that she needs to raise her rates. I couldn’t agree more. I’ve never been disappointed in raising my own rates. Kristen, if you’re reading this, consider that if you double your rates you only need to get 50% of the clients you got before, and you’ll work less. Half the people who used to say yes can still turn you down and you’ll be fine.

I also get the impression you’re really good at what you do, so if you think your work is better than most of the people out there, raise your rates to reflect that. Your potential clients will believe you and treat you like the elite writer that you are.

Lastly, I don’t agree about doing per-project fees. I realize this is a tired topic, and lots to agree about on both sides of it, but lately I’m moving to hourly for every project. It’s the most flexible when the scope creep comes in, and it feels like that the bigger the project, the more risk in not doing it hourly. I always estimate out the entire project and put a big fat $ amount on it, so it can feel like a regular single fee, but I expose my hourly rate, and estimate out the hours for each area of the project. I also point out that this is not a fixed-bid estimate, that the final cost will most likely vary from this number, for better or for worse.

Just my take on the issues there. I could go on and on about spec work too, but I’ll leave it at this for now.

In regards to Pixish,

I’ve read their revised site goals and operation, and I’m sorry, but I’m still not buying it. The problem lies in the initial idea behind it. Whether harmless or not, by participating, you are not only doing work that might not get used (the textbook definition of spec work), and you are being placed in the ring with other illustrators and photographers. Though creative works are an industry, they also harbour a sense of community which these contests begin to undermine. The point where it harms the industry is the fact that by its very existence, and by participation in it, the notion that contests are OK continues to perpetuate the landscape of the creative communities. I’ve read the new post about spec work on the site, and they pretty much dodge this issue by saying ‘it’s not our intent.’ Whether intended or not, the concept of the site still gives off the spec work perception. They also pass the torch onto the artists themselves by basically saying ‘it’s not our fault, we’re just the facilitators.’

Offering the keeping of rights, the ability to contact the artists directly, and a public submissions process are not applicable consolation for the concept of contests.

And the ‘no design work’ thing doesn’t absolve the issue at all. Photographers and Illustrators are just as subject to speculative work as designers.

I love design and I can see the vantage point from which they are working off of. For the case of the t-shirt design used in the episode, if you wanted to do a piece, broach the guy about it and maybe you can start a discourse. If you want to help the guy out in your free time, that’s your prerogative. But to actively promote design contests is the part which is affecting the industry and the public perception of it, and perception is what the no!spec campaign is working to change.

Good shows otherwise! Keep up the great work!

Some comments:

First off, about my rates. They were never disclosed so it’s hard for anyone to say if I’m undercharging. I was merely saying that you work yourself up in your rates and we each need to do what’s comfortable for ourselves. I started lower and I’m still working on that. I’m comfortable with my rates, so don’t worry about me. I’m making enough money.

As for the comments about Dickie and John, I wonder why people have to get so snarky about it. Dickie does a lot of things, that’s what jack-of-all-trades means. It’s means he wears many hats. Design, technical stuff…it’s what he does. John does a lot of new media work…podcasts, production, presentations. Last time I checked a lot of the audience here had full-time jobs, so I think that having John and Dickie on the show is an ACCURATE representation of our audience here at the site. Some work full-time and these two show what that side of freelancing is like–not everyone wants to freelance full-time. I also TRUST that the four of us were picked because of our talents and the areas we represent and I think everyone else should at least respect that. The podcast is what it is.

I hope everyone can try to accept it and offer kind suggestions and let us get on with the shows–we have a lot of ground to cover and if everyone will just listen and not criticize, we can all learn something.

Wow, I am feeling the Freelance Radio love — thanks so much for answering my mailbag question in episode 9 and using the Lost Cartographers as the outro music in this episode (btw, for those of you in Chicago, we’ve got a show tomorrow night at Gallery Cabaret — it would be great to meet some FreelanceSwitch readers/listeners in person!). I really dig the podcast and hope you guys continue the fantastic work for a long time to come — it’s been extraordinarily helpful as I embark upon my fledgling freelance career.

Dickie thanks for the mention, werd up from the LessAccounting guys!

Don’t listen to Kristen. She might be impostor (no picture, we can’t be sure)!

Kristen,
Sorry if anything I said regarding your rates is snarky. That wasn’t my intention, so if I offended, then I apologize.

My only intention was to convey that I got the impression that because you said you were charging rates at average or slightly below average for the market, and that maybe you consider raising them, since it sounds like you do top-notch work. I wanted to point out some potential benefits of that.

If you’re content or if that would just make you too uncomfortable to do that, then hey, ignore everything I say. Maybe someone else who really does need a nudge in that direction will read this and benefit from it.

Cheers!

It’s cool Brian:) My point was that some of the rates seem steep to me. I charge what I’m comfortable with and it does cover my expenses according to the rate calculator, so I’m making a nice profit!

Dickie, I’m so untechnical, how do I get a pic? I don’t have a little FSW guy and I want one. Well, a girl. But no pimp hat like you–you’re the pimp around these parts. xoxo

Pixish is spec work. Assignments are handed out, people do work, maybe someone gets paid, but most don’t. Pretty much the definition of spec work as I understand it. And I don’t understand how it being a contest site makes it any less spec-ish. Someone can hold a contest, get a ton of free/cheap work, and then turn around to use that work in a project that will likely generate a profit. Just because the project is wrapped in a nice little friendly “contest” package, that does not make it any less speculative.

Quite disappointing that Freelance Radio would support something like that. Sadly this isn’t the first time Dickie has supported spec work. In an earlier episode I recall him talking about doing free work to land a new client.

I think it’s fine for Dickie to express his opinion. If you don’t support it, simply don’t look at it or participate:)

We don’t feature things on the show that we think everyone will like; we put our best out there and things that we like and respect our listeners to make up their own minds.

its not about whether it is something people like or dislike
its about an unacceptable practice in the industry
and here we have one of the professional hosts promoting it

My dog needs surgery. I should throw a contest and see which Vet can do a better job, and then I pay the one who fixed my pup. Sounds like a deal to me.

Kristen,

You are absolutely right. I don’t support it, and so I have to look away. Unfortunately that means that I can’t be a part of Fsw. I’ve enjoyed the podcast, especially your contributions to is, as well as Cyan’s, but this repeated support of spec work by Dickie and now other Fsw contributors is just too much. Fsw supports spec work by giving Dickie a platform to promote Pixish and doing free work for potential clients, (and now also by promoting this book cover contest), and I cannot, in good conscience, support a site that promotes spec work. If it means that I have to move on, than I guess that is just the way it will have to be.

(Revision to previous post above)

The aforementioned contest has since been cancelled, and John has also expressed regret for voicing support of Pixish. Collis has also expressed opposition to design contests on the homepage. In light of these changes, I wish there was an edit function for these podcast comments.

I’ll stick around. I was beyond frustrated when the whole Pixish thing started, and I felt the strong urge to throw my iPod out the car window when I heard the name “Pixish” come through the speakers. But the recent comments by Collis and John lead me to believe that Fsw does not support spec work. Only Dickie does, and while that alone is disappointing since he is associated with Fsw, that in itself should not keep me from listening to the rest of the panel and reading the many informative articles and discussions on the website. I’m not a writer myself, Kristen, but I do value your contributions to the discussions and think you have a great deal to offer any freelancer.

Plus I also like seeing Jersey represented on the panel.

– Mike
Parsippany, NJ

*comfort MikeMcD*

You would chuck your iPod out because someone has a differing opinion than your own? You could send it to us instead. We’ll make sure it ends up in good hands – maybe we’ll hold a contest and give it away!

But in all seriousness: we just finished recording another podcast (episode 12) with regards to spec work where you will more fully understand our thoughts on the definition of spec, where to draw the line, and if spec work (depending on the definition) is as bad as it is made out to be.

I still support Pixish in the way it is designed. And it is not designed to be spec work, even if some interpret it as such. Before we post Episode 12, be sure to research the history of speculative work, and step beyond the stark black-and-white. That way you’ll understand that often times, the nomenclature is the issue, not that we support true “spec” work.