FreelancerPro Interview: The Art of Long-Distance (Freelance) Relationships

After a grassroots start in the design arena and some time with agencies, Joshua Murphy chose to take the freelance road.
Now, at 32, this Phoenix, Arizona-based art director is making a name for himself as top talent with Element3Media.com. And he’s got some really useful tips for establishing communication with clients and getting clients to take you for off-site work. Read more at his blog, www.joshuamurphy.com, or check out his design community at www.designstar.org.
Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into freelancing.
I was born and raised in Northern California and actually got started in design through a very good friend of mine who started a band. He is an incredible fine artist and designer and the two of us went to Kinko’s and started working on CD covers, flyers and believe it or not cassette inserts. We spent about 50,000 hours there working on their old Mac’s in Photoshop 2 I think and about 3 hours into it I was hooked and knew I wanted to do this for the rest of my life.
I spent the next few years learning everything I could about web, print and interactive. I started working at some small local companies and was fortunate enough to be recruited by a startup dot com company right as the craze hit. I spent the next few years cutting my teeth in the crazy startup frenzy and when the bubble burst, I headed to Chicago to start doing some agency work.
It was not until the politics of working in an agency started to drive me crazy (and I am talking like pull your hair out, froth at the mouth, want to set yourself on fire and run screaming through the streets type of crazy) that I started freelancing. I found that I could not only do it, but thrive at it and the rest is pretty much history. There is a definite trade off doing freelance as opposed to working at an agency but I find it works very well for me.
After a few years of Chicago, LA and California, respectively, I have settled in Phoenix and have not wanted to set myself on fire for some time now and I am pretty happy about that.
You talk about the value in communication. Many freelancers have honed their communication skills but struggle to deal with others that cannot communicate effectively. What can they do about that?
I think communication is one of the most important but underrated skills a person can have. The way that I deal with others who cannot communicate effectively is to set up my own processes and go the extra mile to make sure there is not a breakdown in communication. If I want to get my check from the client, this is just sometimes part of the “invisible print” of the contract.
I will try to do what I call “over-communicating” to make up for someone’s lack of it. I will be overly clear in my correspondence and not only explain in great detail what it is that I need but why I need it as well. This seems to help most of the time. I will also try and communicate through e-mail as much as possible so I have a written record of what was said. If they are really bad, I will follow up phone conversations with an e-mail overview as well to make sure we are on the same page before moving forward with anything.
Patience and organization are keys in this area as well. Try to figure out why this particular person is a bad communicator and figure out ways to work with them, rather than getting upset and frustrated. Stay organized with your correspondence with the person and don’t exacerbate the situation by being a bad communicator yourself.
What’s your typical day like?
My typical day consists of getting up between 3 a.m. and 5 a.m., making coffee and getting right to work. I feel the most creative first thing in the morning and will generally do my creative work until about 10 a.m. My afternoon hours are spent returning client e-mails, sending in anything I have finished that morning, discussing any new projects and generally winding down for the day.
I usually try to stop working by about 6 p.m. each night. I think it is VERY important to get in to a good routine and not just work whenever you feel like it. Setting up a schedule of “work hours” helps me balance my life, otherwise I would lose track of time and my life.
If I don’t have much work to do or I am having a slow day I will try to do something to get my mind off the fact that there is not a lot to do. I can end up driving myself crazy if I sit around focusing on the fact that there is not much going on. I will generally ride my bike down to the lake, run some errands or just do something to get my mind off work for a little while. Being a freelancer can be pretty relaxing sometimes and when things are good, take advantage of it.
You’ve been lucky to work in some big cities. What can the small-town freelancers bring to the table? Can they compete to get large clients if they’re not located nearby?
Freelance designers that don’t have access to large cities can still compete if they prove that they not only have the chops, but they have the ability to deliver what the client needs. Your geographic location has no bearing on your talent level. Small town freelancers have just as much to offer as someone living right in downtown, the only difference is the downtown companies tend to go with the local person because it’s easier for them. Show the clients you want to work with how it would be easier for them to work with you instead.
I have not always lived in big cities and here is a list of reasons I have given clients as to why they should hire me as an off-site freelancer. Some of them funny and some of them serious depending on the relationship.
- It’s cheaper
- No IT support needed
- No new equipment to buy
- Much less paperwork
- No HR complaints
- Helps the environment
- No water cooler discussions of last night’s episode of “Lost”
- If I don’t work, I don’t get paid, unlike most employees
- If you don’t like my work, it’s much easier to fire me
- You ask for something and it shows up, no hand holding required
- One less person to feed at staff meetings
- I can’t steal office supplies
- You don’t have to deal with my annoying person habits
- And last but not least, did I mention it’s cheaper?
My suggestion to you (if you are not already) is take everything you do online. If you don’t do web, hire someone to build you a portfolio, set up your marketing and communication channels (Facebook, Twitter, IM chat, etc.) get your work somewhere you can show it at the drop of a hat as this will allow clients to view your work where ever you are.
Look at your online presence objectively and get your ego out of the way. Clients have just as much as customers and they need immediate satisfaction. When they are looking for solutions to a problem the last thing they want is to have to go through a long process to see your work and make the connection to how you can help them. Make your online presence clear and don’t waste your time with clever navigation, big load times or anything that will put up any barriers. Get all of that crap out of the way and tell your potential clients how you can make their life easier. Ask your friends and family to take a look at your portfolio or online presence and ask them if they can tell you exactly what you do and how it would make a clients life easier.
You should be able to direct a potential client to your online presence and feel 100% confident that they will learn everything they need to know, quickly and easily.
Here’s something I struggle with: Many clients faraway want just one in-house meeting to get the job but my distance is a problem. How can I, and other freelancers, approach clients like that to secure the job? Should they try?
I think this just all depends on the client. Some will be flexible and others are going to be sticklers and that’s just how it is. For clients that are on the fence I would suggest letting them talk to other clients you have worked with you off-site to help them get over their fears of being burned, because when it comes right down to it, that’s why they want to meet you in person.
You need to prove to the client that you can not only do what you say you can do, but that you will not leave them high and dry in the process. It takes a special kind of person to deliver under those circumstances and unfortunately there are a lot of people that have a copy of Photoshop and Dreamweaver and all of a sudden are freelance designers. Clients have a hard time telling one from the other and if you are serious about competing in a big market then you have to go above and beyond to prove that you can and will deliver.
I try to put clients at ease by letting them know that I understand their fears right from the start. I try to let them know that I have a process for working with off-site clients and that I have done it many times in the past. I will even go so far as to give them the names of other clients I have worked off-site with as a testimonial, if they are still persistent about working with someone on-site, if the client is big enough I will sometimes offer them a seriously reduced price in exchange for the project to get my foot in the door and to let them see that it is actually a very easy and affordable process to work with an off-site freelancer.
There will always be those clients though that want a face-to-face meeting and a handshake. At that point you have to weigh the risks of making the trip. If the project is big enough and you feel you have a real shot of landing it then do it, you only live once right?
You’ve also landed some large clients. What’s the secret to getting the big guys—do you have to go the way of an agency?
Absolutely not. Getting big clients is a lot harder, but it can be done. Bigger clients usually have big needs and are looking for one-stop-shopping for their projects, but every once in a while they are looking for smaller one-off projects that are an excellent way to get your foot in the door. The secret to landing bigger clients is this: There is no secret. It takes hard work, good timing and a little luck, just like most things in life.
Keep in contact with your contacts at bigger companies. Keep reminding them that you are ready for anything they can throw at them and never bite off more than you can chew or you will more than likely fall flat on your face. Under promise and over deliver. That cannot be said enough times.
Bigger clients are looking for reliability and usually expect you to go above and beyond because they know they are a big company or brand. They are used to having companies compete for their marketing dollars and if you want to throw your hat in the ring, you have to be prepared to go above and beyond for them. Prove to them that you are the right person for the job and you will usually land the deal.
What’s your best method for getting clients? Do you do a lot of marketing or rely solely on referrals? How do you approach potential clients?
I don’t do that much marketing. I do get some referrals but I generally have two or three solid clients that keep me busy for chunks of time. When I am looking for new clients I don’t do any marketing really either, I find it to be a waste of time. I go right to the source and hit sites that will connect me with people who are looking for what I do. I can sometimes spend 20 to 30 hours going through projects, bidding and corresponding but the end result is usually a couple of new projects and some good ROI.
I’s kind of like online dating vs. going to a bar. Going to a bar is marketing, throwing yourself in the mix with a bunch of other sweaty, shiny people, dance around and hope for the best. Online dating, the people are there for one reason, to date. Go to the source. I rely on sites that post gigs like FreelanceSwitch, Craigslist and a few others when I am looking for new clients.
You have attained many awards as well. Why did you start competing?
I started submitting work for competition because I think it keeps me sharp, plus it’s a lot of fun and you get some great exposure if you win. It gives me something to look forward to and a little healthy competition is always a good thing. Plus, it never hurts to put on your resume and portfolio. I find it also lends a certain credibility to your work. Like when an actor wins an Academy Award their name changes. It’s no longer Morgan Freeman, it’s Academy Award-Winner Morgan Freeman.
So, what’s your ultimate career goal?
My ultimate career goal is to open a full-service boutique agency and work with a select few clients that allow me and my team to flex our creativity and produce amazing work. If that does not work out, I am going to school to be a lawyer or a chef.
And for fun, tell us a funny story about working remotely.
I was building a new site for a client one time that insisted on printing out the entire site, marking text and content changes with a red pen (all in shorthand, most of which I had to look up online to understand) and mailing me the 250+ pages. I would make the changes and a few days later receive another packet in the mail with the entire printed site. At the end of the project I ended up with a stack of paper 3′ 9″ high, and I know this because I measured it!
I tried to explain to them all the things wrong with this many times, but this was their process and there was no changing their minds. The site ended up taking about six weeks longer than I originally thought.
The moral of the story here is, try to read your client’s “invisible print” in the contract before you start working with them as you may be in for a surprise.
Great tips—thanks for taking the time to speak with us!



This is such an in-depth interview on a very interesting topic.
I’ve often wondered about long distance work and if clients are willing to undertake it.
Thanks very much for the insights!
I love the funny story…over 3 feet of paper from one client…that’s hilarious.
Great interview, some interesting tips and good luck to him on starting his own boutique agency!
Great interview! One of the comments I get a lot when I tell people what I do is “wow, you can do that from anywhere!” Which is true, but that doesn’t necessarily make it easy if a client is not comfortable with a freelancer being a few timezones away. If I were to move I know I’d definitely want to move my regular clients with me, and these are some great tips on how to do that.
The story about printing everything out reminded me of one of Google’s April Fool’s jokes a few years back, when they introduced a paper service that mails you physical copies of all your emails. I don’t ever go that far, but since I do a lot of writing and editing there are times when I really wish I could cut back on the printing (like now).
It has been one my greatest joys to watch you grow and develop into the man you are today.
OMG 3foot9! lol, I would be laughing my socks off! Well, I suppose when they are insistent, it is hardly a laughing matter!
A very cool interview, thanks!
Very in-depth article. I appreciate this very much. Thank you!
“It was not until the politics of working in an agency started to drive me crazy…” – Haha, I guess we all left for same reason.
Some very interesting points, especially with regard to communication. Knowing not only how to communicate effectively yourself, but also how to handle those with poor communication skills is an essential skill and one that is very often overlooked. Being good with people and having a proactive attitude to life help a great deal here, with that and your ever building experience in these kinds of scenarios, you can only get better.
Excellent interview!
Josh,
You rock! You are the most creative individual I have ever had the pleasure of knowing and I think everyone should listen to what you have to say…at least on this topic. You have done an amazing job at sustaining not only yourself, but your morals and your goals all while doing amazing freelance work.
Word.
J
This was a great read for me and very inspiring. I’m a freelance developer in Mesa, AZ (pretty close to phoenix) and was wondering what am I doing wrong out here to attract clients and develop relationships with them. Thanks Josh for the encouragement and advice.
Look forward to meeting you or talking to you soon.
Love the interview! Very in-depth and answered a few questions I didn’t know I had.
A useful and detailed article, great work… I really enjoyed, thanks.
Great article, but I have one question: how on earth do you manage to get any reasonably-paying gigs using online sites? I keep hearing you have to steer clear of sites like elance, sologig, odesk, etc to get decent clients – is it different for designers? Better pay, better jobs, etc? I’m a copywriter and every time I go online, I get depressed seeing nothing but clients who want $5/page articles and entire websites for $100! I could make more doing a shift at Burger King!
Very interesting article Kristen. I’m a designer and have been contemplating going 100% freelance lately. I’m worried about getting enough work, though some ideas on your post put me at ease.
Do you really start work at 5am and go until 6pm every day?
Also out of curiosity, where in New Jersey are you from? I’m from New Jersey myself, currently residing near Wayne, NJ.
great words of advice. you ARE a great communicator and have shared some helpful stories and wisdom. much appreciated.
Thanks for the interview Kristen. It’s good to hear from others’ experiences, very usefull. However, I always wonder why in these subjects the money issue is hardly mentioned and I don’t mean to be nosy but the reason I say this is because I believe one of the big problems today when doing freelancing is the price you can charge for your work. To be honest this is the hardest part in my opinion and obviously this varies depending on the country, media, etc.
I’ve been doing design for more than 10 years and I always get good comments about my work. I receive answers from most of the applications I send to get a project but they don’t seem to be willing to pay enought. What’s a good price? How much can you charge considering your experience and quality? maybe there are too many clients out there looking for freelancers in order to pay little but sometimes I think is ridiculous and even ofensive.
Is it better to sell yourself as an Agency even if there is one persone in charge only?. Or are there ways to obtain some dignity as a freelance person?.
Cheers!
fa
Josh, Great interview, out of many interviews i’ve read yours is really the only one that stands out. It is very well explained and easy to understand. Being that I am starting out as a freelancer it gives me a great idea and advice of how everything works and what I need to do to make it work. Thank you for your time.
Emina
six26studio
Thanks for an interesting article! Recently been looking for different strategies in freelance marketing. I thought Joshua Murphy ill share some
. But, as usually referral marketing plays the biggest role, once you established.
Saulius
Melow
Thank you all so much for your kind words. Let me see if I can answer a few questions from the thread here.
HS: You are right, the sites you have listed are very poor quality in my opinion. There are not many online sites that list great contracts but you just have to be vigilant in finding ones that do list good projects.
One of the other things I do is I check job boards of companies that are hiring designers or marketing people and I will hit them up with my pitch to hire me as a freelancer instead because you know they have a need for work to be done. That is a good way to atleast make a contact if nothing else.
Ted Goas: Yes, I really do start work @ 5:00am. I am really a morning person so it is pretty easy for me to do that. One of the things about freelancing is you have to work twice as hard as a regular job, but in my opinion you get three times the reward.
FA: This is a tricky question and from what I have discovered is that you have to be a pretty good sales person as well as a good designer or writer or whatever your profession is. For the most part people will ALWAYS try to get the most they can for as little as possible and you have to be able to stand your ground and possibly lose some business in the process to maintain your dignity.
When clients try to pull this with me I generally tell them to find someone who will do it for cheaper and when they screw it up they can come back to me any time. If they are happy with the super cheap shotty work then you did not want them as a client anyway. If they get screwed over, which they usually do, you will more than likely have a client that will come back to you time and time again.
Thanks again everyone!
-Joshua
Joshua,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to asnwer and for the advise.
All the best!
Fa
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Thanks for sharing the information here this is rally good..and the article you have been provided in your site is really great i love that..great job..thank you!