Freelancer Pro Interview: Zac Gordon
Students in Springbook High School’s Web design classes get a real-life glimpse into being a designer—their teacher is also a freelancer!
Zac Gordon, 26, graduated from this Maryland high school just eight years ago. For the past four years, he’s been freelancing in the design business. Because he’s got a side career going, it’s the perfect platform for his students to see what being a designer is really like. Now he’s created a business platform that will enable him to work with his students after they’ve graduated. He’s still teaching in the classroom, but has found that the benefits of his full-time job have translated into a thriving business.
He’s also incorporated things he’s learned on FreelanceSwitch into his teachings—and his students enjoy Freelance Radio every other week. Find out more about this interesting designer!
What class do you teach? Where? How many students are in the class?
I teach an intro to Web design and an advanced Web design class. The intro class is full: 35 students and 28 computers. However, this is our first year offering an advanced Web class, so we only have a little more than a dozen students in that one. Additionally we have team of interns that are working to release a rocking Website for our high school next semester.
My undergrad and graduate degrees were in history. I also teach Modern World History, which I love. At this point, though, I am moving towards working full-time with the Web program and Web education. Because of my experience, though, I encourage kids to study whatever interests them in school, not just art or programming or Web design. I don’t feel that studying other subjects interferes with or holds you back from doing freelancing. If anything it makes you a more well rounded person.
Tell us about how you’re integrating your students into your freelance business.
I have done freelance Web design for about four years, however, I like to work with other people so I usually have a team of another designer or programmer (or two) on most of the projects that I do. Now I am trying to give more work to my students, whether it means giving projects over to them before I get my hands on them or get them to help me with existing or large-scale projects.
I am trying to build up our high school as a place to go to get professional Websites done at a tenth of the price. All of the money goes straight to the students, but I ensure that the work is quality. Over the next few years, I think it will grow into something really amazing. It really sunk in for me after I met with a client with one of my students… I was thinking, I would charge about 2500 for this project, but the client ended up paying $500. Everyone felt it was a fair price, from the client to the student to the student’s parents.
After students graduate I try to either employ them directly as freelancing contractors through my private business or refer clients to them straight out. Over time I hope to transform my business into more of a network of trained freelancers that I can personally vouch for because I have known them, taught them, and worked with them on projects for at least two years. It is in its early stages, but I think the business model has potential.
How did you find out about FreelanceSwitch?
I came across northxeast.com recently after it launched and have been following Collis and his crew’s work ever since! I found out about FSW through northxeast and have been digging the forums, book, etc. since it all got started.
How did you hear about the podcasts?
I learned about the podcasts from just following the site. They were a big boon early on for me because I would wait anxiously until the next episode came out. I never really followed podcasts before this, but I learned how nice it was to listen to Freelance Radio while doing the more routine or design related freelance Web design tasks. Unfortunately I can’t listen while programming!
How have you incorporated these into your class teachings?
My buddy who teaches Web design at a nearby high school started bringing in guest speakers every Friday. It got me thinking about what I could do that was cool on Fridays. Since the advanced Web class works on projects for themselves or for clients outside of school, I thought we could have what we now call “Freelance Fridays” where students work on their portfolios, paying/charity sites and listen to Freelance Radio.
We have recently switched our process because we can’t listen to an entire podcast in class, so now students listen to an episode during the week and we talk about it at the beginning of class on Friday. Every week students also get a grade for participating in the FSW forums. I am a big believer in the community and feedback on that site and feel that they are getting invaluable guidance from the podcasts and forums. I mean imagine learning all of this stuff when you were sixteen years old!
How do you think freelancing impacting the younger generation? What’s your advice to high-school-age kids who want to freelance when they “grow up?”
Again, I let the students answer this one. However, my goal in teaching Web design is that after the first year they can all make static Websites for clients if they like, and that in their second year they will make dynamic, easy to update sites with WordPress or ExpressionEngine in class and get paid for it. They must all also do charity work, because I believe it is important to realize how much your skills can help other people reach some pretty noble goals. (And it keeps them from just thinking about money).
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Man, I would love to be able to teach a class like this. It is certainly a great way to raise some good subcontractors while giving kids a great learning experience. I think it would be a lot of fun to share knowledge on all aspects of a career in web development.
Why such a steep discount? If the client is a for-profit, $500 is a bit thin for a whole team, even if they are students. It makes sense to have less expensive rates, but make sure your for-profit clients are paying an amount appropriate to the quality of service rendered. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a little financial motivation!
This sentence here doesn’t sound right to me! Am I the only one?
I’d love to have a teacher like this! I really admire what you’re doing for the kids where you teach and I think it should be a more widespread thing. I’ve been doing freelance web design for 3 years now (I’m 17) and the biggest influence around me (in everything, not only school) is the head of IT who knows a slight bit of CSS.
I hope other teachers see this and are able to implement something like this in to their teachings.
If the client is a for-profit company, then you are turning web design into a commodity and once these freelancers you’re training get out in the real world — they won’t be able to support themselves. Why pay them $2500 (for example) when you can go to the high school and save $2000?
I can understand having the students work on real-world projects. So design for non-profits only (charities, churches, etc) and feel good about giving them practical experience. To me, that’s a win-win.
As graduates from “the place to go to get professional websites done at a tenth of the price” the students will become “the freelancers who are racing to see who goes out of business the fastest.”
Just my 2¢
Great interview! I wish someone had taught me some of this stuff when I was in high school. Had to learn a lot of lessons the hard way.
I think one of the best signs that you’ve “made it” as a designer, is when others flock to you to teach. I’m looking forward to when I can give a speech or teach a small class for the first time.
I see many Ads on craiglist.org where people are looking for somebody who could create a web site for the tenth of the price or even for a FREE. Now I know where to send them – at Springbook High School!
Good interview on a great site. Keep on posting and I’ll keep on reading and getting ideas! Cheers from Sweden
These students need to be taught the value of design. The last thing we need is another “1/10th of the price” web designer taking jobs away from people who charge a fair price for a fair service. Business is about an equal exchange of value for money. You’re not only doing your students a disservice but the entire community. Please rethink this goal of yours.
Agree with Adrian. That just sounds wrong. And if the students are getting paid, would they have to pay taxes? I wonder what the legalities are with this. Either way, I would have to rank this a little below spec work in that it devalues the work we do. That is of course if they put out great work. If they put out crap then the $500 is justified.
Guys at my high school used to play with questionable business models all the time, it was no big deal.
Thanks for all the feedback about the program that we are working on at Springbrook, especially about the pricing!
The pricing started off where I had students doing sites for free, but felt that they should be getting something in return. At the time, I thought it was a little unfair to the potential clients to charge them industry rates (several thousands of dollars) if the product they were getting may not have been on par with industry standard sites. It is not that the work is horrible, but think back to the quality of the work you did the first year you were making websites.
I took the pricing guide from this: http://wavestatic.com/blog/how-much-should-a-website-cost.
In hearing these comments about spec work, undercutting other web designers, and giving students a fair rate, I think that we will rethink our pricing schedule and business model for the Springbrook web program. It has been a learning process
I appreciate everyone’s feedback about how to best help high school web design freelancers.
You, sir, are brilliant. I am 19 years old right now going to college for Graphic Design. In my high school years I was THE go to guy for web design help and all that. I was even with a team of students that designed and maintained the school’s website. Unfortunately when I left there wasn’t anyone left to pick it up. The Web Design teachers at our HS know a little bit, but most of them are in their 40’s and don’t have that interest to really get out there and learn more of what is going on. I wish we had something like this in which our teacher was an active member of the freelancing community and was actually out there doing what he/she was teaching!
I think you really have something great going and I wish you the best in the future because this could be something revolutionary…getting more students involved in design…because it is a heck of a lot better than working at McDonald’s…I learned that from experience. My first job (which I still have) was a web design job at age 16…I love the job and it is so nice having a decent paycheck as opposed to what kids get at fast food places and all that.
I was fortunate enough to start web designing before high school so that by the time I hit high school I was freelancing (or trying to!). I think what Zac is doing is wonderful for our industry; he is teaching the future web designers of America how to build websites properly — while allowing them to get a head start in testing out possible business modals like Stuck mentioned.
Zac’s program is not about cutting costs, it’s about giving the students an early opportunity to get started. When I was in high school I was building websites for $200! Of course my clients were not large corporation; my main competition was “the owners nephew” who would do it for a Tenth of what I would have done it for!!
If you are worried that Zac’s students are going to steal your business than you are in this business? It sounds like you’re the one hurting things by being out of college, still being at a high school students caliber, AND STILL charging that much.
Any corporation business owner is smart enough to see the difference between a high school program and a full-time freelancer.
Again, what Zac and his program is doing is one of the best things to happen to our industries future, and I hope other colleges and high schools follow in his foot steps!
Great job, Zac; keep up the great work.
My name is Tim Orbanac and I am one of Mr. Gordon’s students. I just want to start by saying that what he has done with the web program at Springbrook is absolutely amazing and unprecedented. He is an amazing person and educator. I had known of him since my freshman year (I am currently a senior). However, I never had a class with him until my junior year. I took his intro to web design class. I came into that class with zero knowledge of web design. By the time 4th quarter came around, I had a acquired my first paying client. I have been hooked ever since. My freelance career has been ever-increasing thanks to Mr. Gordon. He has led me on to clients and has provided jobs for me. He has been an amazing role model for me and I know that I will continue doing web design for the rest of my life. This man has taught me so much and I know that he is doing a truly amazing thing here at Springbrook. If only you could see the reaction of our latest not-for-profit project. There is nothing like providing a person with a great website when they provide kids with hope. It’s not about the money for us. It’s about making a difference in the web design world and making some rock-star websites!